Originally Posted by Matt1:
You know, when you get those random thoughts during the cycles sometimes, is it possible to get those random thoughts in FA in the same manner as when awake? I had assumed that such thoughts would be vivid and perceptible when asleep or dreaming, not just thoughts, if that makes any sense, but I could be wrong.

Also I've assumed I did not go directly into FA because I could feel my whole body exactly the same as when awake. Should I still do a reality check (and possibly cancel out some of the good effects of SSILD by moving, if that is possible)?

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Usually in an FA our thoughts can immediately turn into images like you've said. However, there is something peculiar about some of the FAs generated by SSILD. They can be so realistic that no amount of visualization will work, and if you focus too much on your physical body you WILL wake up seamlessly and move your physical body instead. This type of FAs usually happens when you feel you are waking up frequently. I suggest you read my other post about Focus Point, which might help when encountering this kind of FAs next time.  

Originally Posted by bluremi:
It has not worked for me after my initial success. I am still experimenting to find out what works.

Right now I'm focusing on staying awake during WBTB longer so that I don't drift away in the middle of the cycles. I find myself stopping and starting once they get to the long cycle stage, I think these interruptions are hurting the effectiveness of the technique.

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Staying awake longer will definitely help, but you also need to be more aware of the FAs. Do you find yourself waking up many times after the exercise? If you do, chances are some of those awakenings were FAs.  

Originally Posted by Stevano:
Hey I've recently started Lucid Dreaming and found that your technique works great! I've had 14 or so Lucids in a around a month. The only problem is that when i started out, i had super vivid and long lucids but recently all of mine are very blurry, and fade out in less than a minute. My dream recall seems to be suffering too. I keep a dream journal and everything and i've tried everything during the dream to try and stabilize it, like spinning, staring at my palms, crawling, telling the dream to be more clear, rubbing my palms etc. but nothing seems to be working. What do you think could be the problem? Thanks in advance!

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Sounds like you are on the right path. Frequency is up, and you understand the stabilization techniques. Are you doing anything unusual with your sleep schedules? Such as going to bed late? Getting up earlier? Are you well rested and in good physical condition? Are you under stress? These are the questions you should ask yourself as they all may impact your dream recall and vividness of your LDs.

Another suggestion is to take a couple days of break. 14 LDs in around a month is quite an achievement already so no need to stretch it. You might also consider taking some supplements. After all, many of which are "brain food", and you don't want to starve your brain!  

Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
I have been an on-and-off lucid dreamer for the past few years.  Never finding true success with any method I've tried.   I have tried SSILD a few times with no success.  I like the simplicity and sustainability of this technique and would like to master it.  I have a few clarifications to ask.  For anyone who has had repeated sucsess with this method, what is your typical SSILD attempt like?

I usually WBTB for X amount of time,  lay down and relax for a few minutes then cycle until my random thoughts start to take over.  I then fall asleep.  Never had any results.  

If anyone is willing to help me improve my SSILD I would greatly appreciate it, as lucid dreaming is a huge interest of mine but it has been on the back burner for quite a while with life getting in the way and this method seems promising without taking to much time out of my daily life.

Thanks
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Sounds like you are performing the technique correctly. Assuming that is true (I can't tell for sure without more details given), then you should watch for False Awakenings. Do you wake up multiple times after doing SSILD? If the answer is yes, then chances are those were FAs, or trances which can be easily manipulated into a WILD. If the answer is no, then it is likely you have not had sufficient sleep prior to doing the exercise. Hope this helps and good luck!  

Originally Posted by reveriemyst:
Hi, I just wanted to sincerely thank CosmicIron and everyone involved in developing/sharing this technique. This has worked amazingly well for me right off the bat, as opposed to DILD, MILD, WILD (just couldn't get the hang of those  ). So a big THANKS!
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My pleasure, as always.  

Originally Posted by Summerlander:
And you are still lying.  I've already explained the reasons why and it is not solely the usage of the terminology that I find you suspicious.  Here is the evidence of what went on for all to see:

OBE4U.com Forum 61 View topic - Plagiarism: "SSILD" taken from The Phase Guidebook

The behaviour of a desperate man trying to save face... and his ego.  I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and will not tolerate your conduct.  How convenient that after all these years you remember to mention the author of indirect techniques and cycling when under questioning by several curious members of various cyber-societies.

Whether it was originally written in Chinese or Japanese, it does not exempt you from suspicion or blame.  And to use that as an excuse, or to even skew my reasoning behind it, is suspicious in itself.  Any distinctions that you now make between what you and Raduga propound isn't proof of your authorship either.  It is very easy to append to what others have put forth before, and worse, to claim to add something new when there is leeway for idiosyncrasies clearly outlined in The Phase Guidebook.

Your earlier versions add nothing new.  Your updates aren't something that the School of Out-of-Body Travel has overlooked either.

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So you have followed me to this thread and indeed you are affiliated with Raduga! You made it appear as if I mentioned Raduga in this thread as an attempt to cover up when under questioning. But the truth is that I was simply answering those questions directly and I made it very clear that despite the similarities on the surface there are fundamental differences. I have given similar explanation when people asked what the differences are between SSILD and WILD, DILDS, MILD, and etc., and should I be blamed for stealing from those as well?

As far as I can see, you made up in your mind that SSILD was stolen from Raduga and is blinded by ignorance and hatred, to the point you choose to ignore my clearly provided evidence and analysis. Your criticism is based entirely on speculation yet you did not heisitate to attack me with some most vicious words. I do not know who is more “desperate?”

In my original text I had a disclaimer saying that people are free to treat SSILD as a new method or a clone of other methods because not everyone is able to see and appreciate some of the subtle differences. So yes you are free to think SSILD is a clone of Raduga's method (and I don't want to even bother to explain it anymore), but calling me liar is simply going too far. It's good you followed me here so people can have a good look at how malicious you, and possibly the "school" you represent, truly are. I still have a lot of respect to Mr. Raduga for his technical excellence but you have brought him nothing but disgrace.  

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw:
As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is excellent. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term?

Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth.

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When I read Raduga's book I thought the use of the word "phase" is a pretty good one. While writing the revised version of the SSILD tutorial, I often needed to refer to this state(s) of consciousness, but I did not want to tie the technique with any particular belief system. As a result I adopted the "phase" term, and in a few occasions even defended it when questioned by a few people. After this incident though I think I'm going to take out this word from all my writings. Nothing against the concept, just some bad taste in the mouth.

As for the cycling, while it may look similar to Raduga's, they are actually entirely different animals. Raduga uses these as a way to actively enter the "phase" (damn I'm using it again), and he makes no distinctions on what you use -- in fact, he has a whole slew of "techniques" for you to choose from in an a la carte fashion including some strange stuff like squeezing the brain. As you can see, these are "techniques" in their own rights, so basically his "cycling" is the rapid chaining of various "techniques".

SSILD, on the other hand, was based on the Buddhism ideology of the "six senses" (thus the name). In my early document I claimed that no one knew why this stuff worked, particularly I was referring to a scientific explanation. The development of the technique though was not an accident. I figured, based on the Buddhism ideology, we might be able to get something to work by stimulating the various senses. It's not scientific, but it doesn't hurt to try! Initially I wanted to stimulate all six senses but that simply was not possible, especially the 6th one, LOL. Therefore I reduced it to the more basic 3, and tried it myself, and what do you know, it actually worked! I showed it to a member of my forum who at the same was struggling to get WILD to work, and within a few days it worked on him too! And that's how this stuff was developed, so no, it was NOT inspired by Raduga's work.

Initially the technique was composed of rather long "stimulations" to the 3 senses, and ask the user to stay awake after performing the stimulations by occasionally glancing the darkness -- this can be seen in the very first version of the English text as well which was under the title "A practical recipe to induce LDs and OBEs". This, of course, had the side effect of causing insomnia for many people. It was then we decided to further reduce the length of each step to the point it became more "cycle"-like. Compare this with Raduga's cycles, we see fundamental differences: 1. Each step of the SSILD cycle is NOT a technique by itself, unlike that of Raduga's. 2. Each cycle is designed to target and only target the 3 senses, nothing else! They are chosen on purpose, not randomly. 3. The aim of the cycles is to fully stimulate the senses, not to succeed in entering a "phase" (now I hate myself). This last item was stressed since day one, and where do you see that mentioned in Raduga's texts? You don't because that's not how he intended his "cycles" to be used for, and that difference is crucial. Summerlander apparently does not understand either sides well enough for that he fails to identify this defining difference.

Anyway, I'm tired of defending myself from this person since it appears that his mind is so fixed on his conspiracy stories beyond reason. I think I've explained myself and the SSILD technique clearly enough so readers have enough materials to make their own judgement call.  

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket:
So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far

Things I've noticed while using SSILD
-Dream recall skyrockets
-I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen)
-I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's)
-Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway

Some thoughts
I will continue with this technique because I haven't had much luck with the other techniques
and my dream recall has been rather bad lately, and SSILD has improved that, It strange how
this technique works and I notice how it's described as "setting off a time bomb, to go off in your dream"
in the updated guide

I don't really understand that quote and was hoping for some clearification, but I do believe this could be
a great helping hand technique for beginners and I appreciate any input or advice from fellow SSILDers

Thanks,
-EmptyBucket
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SSILD is sort of a hybrid of WILD and DILD techniques. I say that because it is possible for it to cause both types of dreams to happen. However, to use SSILD more effectively we should lean more on the DILD side, and treat WILD as solely a side effect. Now for DILD to happen of course we need to be dreaming/sleeping first. Thus the most important part of SSILD really is how quickly you can fall asleep after performing the exercise. The more quickly you fall asleep, the higher chance you will have at getting a DILD, FA, or suddenly awaken into an OBE (I hate to use this word but I'm now banned to use the other word I preferred, LOL).

Of course there is no guarantee that SSILD will give you a DILD, but at least if you do it right it won't take you too long and you will have many more nights to try. On the other hand if you try too hard and end up not being able to sleep, then you will miss the opportunity of getting a DILD as well as precious sleep! For people who are just starting with this the hardest thing to do is not the technique itself, but "letting go".

Having said all that, I want to add that SSILD is actually not a hit or miss type of technique once you learn it. It is almost guaranteed that after you do it you will run into some sort of FA or semi-FAs which you can utilize to turn into full blown LD experiences. Once you master this part it can give you near 100% success rate.

I hope this helps. Cheers.  

Originally Posted by LittleStar:
How do I know if I'm concentrating or focusing on my closed eyelids, or if I'm looking at the blackness created by my mind? Or does it matter, along as I'm focusing othe visual?

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Both are okay, actually. The only problem with the former is that you may end up causing a lot of stress to your eye muscle and become unable to sleep. To be able to use SSILD effectively, one really needs to understand the design philosophy behind it -- Lucid dream induction is largely a mental exercise, and therefore is rather delicate. Very subtle differences in what you do and the conditions can cause dramatic differences in the outcomes. SSILD was designed to minimize this issue. Instead of requiring a lot of finesse from the users, it goes the opposite, asking the users to perform each step without too much concern and effort. Basically, just DO it without thinking too much. I find that people who have difficulty with SSILD are usually the analytical type -- they tend to analyze too much, thus bringing in too much rational thoughts and discipline into the process. SSILD aims to be a "technique", not "art". Thus, you should really do the same. In Chinese we have a saying "Little monk reads sutras without heart, just the mouth." Now to do SSILD properly we need exactly that! LOL. So basically, it doesn't matter whether you are focusing or staring. Just do it! Better yet, do it without putting in too much effort.

Originally Posted by LittleStar:
Next, I don't seem very adept at switching between the cycles
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Again, it's perfectly fine. In fact it is often a good sign. When this happens it means you are getting close to falling asleep. Just try to finish the required four sets and you are done. Don't worry if you got the orders wrong, or there are moments you completely blacked out. It's fine to get those senses overlapped too. I do that all the time.

About the distraction you mentioned upon waking... I'm not sure I understand it correctly. Do you mean you see things while doing the exercise? If that's the case then you are encountering hypnagogia which is great! It means you are drifting into dreams while still being conscious. If they do get intense then just stop cycling and do an RC. Chances are you are already in a dream.

Falling asleep while doing the exercise is okay too, but if fall asleep too quickly then you may not have warmed it up sufficiently for things to occur later. I suggest that you at least finish the 4 sets. If that becomes difficult then it's a sign you have not had sufficient sleep prior to that. In this case you should rest well before attempting the exercise.

As for comparing to MILD, no, I'd say it is completely different. MILD, IMO, is almost exactly the opposite of SSILD. It is exactly the kind of problem SSILD tries to solve -- delicate mental exercise. In SSILD, you do NOT need any type of autosuggestions, visualizations, imaging things, etc. Just do the steps in the dumbest fashion and it will work! Do the opposite, you might as well go with the other techniques.

I don't recommend mixing other techniques during SSILD, and I don't recommend stuff like meditation prior to doing SSILD. Those exercises are designed to put your mind into a specific state, which may not be optimal as a launching pad for SSILD. Stuff you do during the day doesn't really matter, for example, ADA. However, I'm always skeptical of their effectiveness... but that's another subject.

I hope this helps. Good luck!  

Originally Posted by fogelbise:
I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it.

I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my  suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique).

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This is so well put I have nothing more to add! I will redirect my answer to your post instead.  

Originally Posted by fogelbise:
I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it.

I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my  suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique).

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There are distinctions between active mind and those "dreamlets" (I love this word). The later, as you put it, is actually a good thing so there is no need to battle them. The former one though, is a major problem because it can keep you awake. I find that the more practice you have with SSILD, the more likely the cycles will help you quiet down those active thoughts so they are themselves instruments to help you relax. This, however, seems only true to people who have become used to the technique, not beginners. I still wouldn't advise mixing other techniques though because the state of our mind can be influenced by very subtle things. Therefore introducing extra ingredients may create dramatically different conditions. Who knows, they could be better than the one from SSILD, but for people who are just starting I'd advise against doing it. For those who are proficient with SSILD that's a different story of course. Experiment however you like and if you find a more effective combo by all means please let me know so we can improve this technique!  

Originally Posted by tofur:
I didn't realize ssild required practice and time to perfect, it seems really straightforward to me.  Whats the difference between a novice and experienced ssild-er?

edit:  does it usually take a bunch of repeated efforts before lucidity starts showing up?  like a couple weeks of doing ssild with wbtb every night or something?

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Some people saw success on the first try, and some simply never get it. As much as I wanted SSILD to be idiot-proof it is still far from reaching that goal. With more practice, one can indeed increase the success rate of SSILD. The amount of effort required also decrease as one becomes more proficient.  

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket:
Well,

I've been trying this for around a week now

Results

-No lucids
-No false awakenings(at least I think?)
-Dream recall is great(very happy about this)

My style
So sometimes when attempting techniques to induce LDs I'm either very excited to attempt it, but other times when doing techniques I'm kind of just in a "whatever" mindset(ie, it would be cool to have a lucid tonight but if not.. meh), It would be helpful if someone could tell me which mindset is most resourceful for lucid dreaming as I know mindsets are HUGE in success.

But latey I've been waking up, doing the cycles somewhat carelessly and sometimes extremely carelessly, just kind of messing around with that. Every morning I wake up and I remember my dreams and it's starting to get rare that I remember nothing(which is awesome).

Although, I've been having some moments where I feel like when I was in the dream I could've done something, like I was 1/4 conscious. Very hard to explain it just feels like the day following the dream I felt like I was close enough to attain lucidity.

Some thoughts

I enjoy doing this method but I'm hungering to attempt other methods such as WILD, but at the same time I feel like I should stick to this method as it's yielding better results than I've had with WILD, DILD(had 2 short lucid, idk bout this one). But I feel like this can also be a good stepping stone for beginners to increase recall and I would recommend this method to people with bad recall.

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Your second approach is perfect. That's the way to do SSILD! However, I'm suspecting you might have overlooked some False Awakenings. Tell yourself to reality check every time you wake up after doing SSILD no matter how sure you are.  

Originally Posted by LittleStar:
So, I have to assume that either this the doesn't work for me, or wasnt doing it right. I tried it for 4-5 days, I know it's not the lengthiest spell, but my recall in those days went down to near nothing, really just a vague image or two each night rather than any kind of full dream. I switched back to MILD with my usual mantras and mediation before sleep and immediately had much better recall.

I am inclined to think that I just fail at SSILD, as so many people can't be wrong about the tech, but I think for me I needed the mantra to focus on dreaming before sleeping, rather than focusing in external factors. As some above posts suggest, it could be that I need to press through until I become a little more used to a different kind focusing, or perhaps need to return to this once I'm a little more proficient and experienced with lucidity in general. (as a side note, I dont seem to ever get that initial jolt of lucidity with a new and interesting tech that many people seem to get, perhaps I'm too analytical for that, or pessimistic(realistic), but that I would say is a big problem for me and new methods... Just not sure how to overcome it, and set my mind up for decent expectation of lucidity.)

A quick point about the ADA, isn't want the thread to be hijacked by any means, but I would be interested in a thread about this, as I'm in the mind that ADA is the perfect tech, it makes sense to me that it should work, and I think I would attribute a lot of my lucid dreams to general awareness rather than a technique... In fact probably all (2 or 3) that weren't induced by fear. I would be very interested to hear other opinions and arguments, especially if there was experience fro the likes of Sageous weighing on the counter.

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In the lucid dreaming world I often see people say things like "this makes a lot of sense to me so it's probably a good technique." I beg to differ. In fact, I often like to see it from exactly the opposite angle -- because it seems to make a lot of sense it's probably NOT a good technique. Please keep in mind we know very little about how the brain works and what consciousness/awareness truly are. In this case, the rules we see as "correct" or "make sense" may not apply at all! Techniques that are invented this way often leads to nothing.  

Originally Posted by qaz741:
Success!
Been trying this for close to a week now and I just had my 2nd ever lucid, my 1st lucid being over a year ago.

There were a couple of differences between last nights SSILD "routine" than my previous failed attempts which I think helped.

Firstly, I was doing my ADA much more comprehensively yesterday compared to the previous days.
Secondly, the WBTB yesterday was naturally rather than due to an alarm clock. This is how it went: I went to sleep at about 10:30pm and set the alarm for 3:00am which would have meant I would wake up 4.5hrs after. But I ended up waking up at 11:57pm, feeling hot for some reason. Since my sleep was disturbed, I thought Ill just cancel the alarm, have a proper sleep and try again tomorrow. So i cancelled the alarmed. But then I naturally woke back up 4:17am needing to take a mad piss. So I went straight to the toilet and straight back but I decided I might as well do the cycles now. I did the cycles, went to sleep, and had a long and vivid lucid dream.

So what changed in my SSILD "routine" last night was that I woke up later than usual(4.17am compared to my usual 3:00am), and I also did the cycles differently. I kept reading CosmicIron saying on here that you need to do the cycles in a relaxed and not highly attentive matter but I just wasnt getting it and kept doing the cycles robotically. But last night, I decided that I would prioritize going back to sleep first and the cycles second. Meaning I was putting my main focus on going back to sleep and the cycles in the back of my head which kept me much more relaxed than usual. Of course by doing that, my mind kept drifting off but I would catch myself and continue the cycles. I ended up finishing about 3-4 decently long, albeit broken up due to my mind drifting off, cycles.

So there it is.:
The main reason I posted this though is to thank CosmicIron for all your input in this thread and for introducing us to this technique. Im going to need to keep at this technique for a little longer to really have faith in it, but so far so good.

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Congratulations! What you described -- prioritizing on falling asleep instead of the cycles, is the perfect way to do SSILD. Now that you got the hang of it you will see more successes down the road for sure!  

Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
Yes, that is what I meant.  I do not doubt you or your technique, I just find it odd that no one on this site has really found long term success with it.  I just wander about people having success with it, but when that initial excitement phase wears off they start not having success.  This happened to me.  I found mild success a few times with this technique (a few shorts lucids and a few FA's.) but now no matter what I do I can't find success.

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Such evidence are not difficult to find on this site alone. There is a thread that people record their results over a 30-day period and you can see some amazing statistics there, for example. To get sustained success with a technique one needs to not only practice but also analyze. This applies to every known techniques, not just Ssild.  

Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
Are there ways to tell if we are in this phase that cosmic speaks of, or is it more of a you just have to guess?  After preforming SSILD cycles for a while I do feel closer to sleep but I dont feel as if im in a certain transition phase.

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Basically you will be in this phase during any of the subsequent awakenings after performing SSILD. If you spend a long time *cooking* the cycles then chances are you will succeed during the very first awakening. Otherwise you can perform the cycles one more time and be in the phase upon waking up again.  

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket:
^^ When you guys mention moving your hand for an RC, do you mean to visualize yourself doing an rc, or actually physically doing an rc(which I guess is counter-productive)

And do these after the SSILD cycles, or in between?
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Either way is fine, although visualization is the safer approach as it allows you to take advantage of even the lightest trance state. You can do this right after the SSILD cycles and that may give you a authentic WILD experience. For easier and more reliable result you will want to do it upon subsequent awakenings resulted from the SSILD exercise.  

Originally Posted by Denholm:
Something I'm considering doing is preparing half a page or so of text, and then when I wake up to perform SSILD, I'll put the light on and read over this sheet. It'll basically just have some of my goals and intentions etc on it, as well as things like reminders to watch out for false awakenings etc. I think this may help me to become just alert enought to finish SSILD without falling asleep prematurely, and has the added benefit of reaffirming goals for when I become lucid.

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I think thats a good idea!  

Originally Posted by Aremus:
Hello,

I'm new in this forum, and wanted to write my experience.
I've been trying for this week the SSILD technique with no luck.

I've been waking up after the 4 hours of sleep, the first day wasn't very sleepy as the next days. That day i tried the cycles. Started to feel very relaxed, then when i finished the cycles, it took me several times to sleep. Didn't get any LD.

The next days has been very different. For example today. I woke up after 4 sleep hours, then got up for 5 minutes, but felt very sleepy. But better than the days before. So i got back to bed to start the cycles. It started well, but this has been happening a lot. I do the cycles, when i start with the sight, i start to drift away in my mind, then when i realize i'm drifting away, i try to repeat the cycle or going to the next one, i start but then drift away again. But i don't fall asleep. Today i did a quick ones because of this issue, then do the long ones, but didn't feel relaxed, so i let my self sleep with no result.

Any suggestion on what could i do to accomplish this?
Thanks in advance!
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The second try sounds like you were doing the technique correctly and getting the desired results. When you begin to drift in and out, chances are you are already in a trance state and very close to being in a dream. You could be already in an FA too! I suggest you do a couple more cycles with longer durations for each step and see if you experience any strange sensations. If nothing occurs, then simply do an RC, stop, and fall back to sleep quickly.  

Originally Posted by LucidProdigy:
I've tried SSILD for the past two days and have gotten 6 FAs. I was only planning on using it to increase to overall awareness of my normal dreams so I would have a better chance of becoming lucid...but wasn't quite expecting this. I haven't successfully converted any of the six into a full blown lucid yet but I'll try again tonight.

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It is extremely important to perform RC every time you wake up from SSILD. The chance of it being an FA is quite high. Sometimes it can be a strange state in between an FA and real awakening which, with more delicate handling, can be easily converted into a full-blown lucid dream.

Originally Posted by fogelbise:
Threads for techniques that don't work for a good sampling of people tend to die out and not have 800+ posts and 35 pages. The technique helps in some way for both DILDs and WILDs. I have seen many members here have success with it including myself. It is probably not for everyone though.

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Thank you for backing me up. I agree that the technique is not as easy and bullet/idiot proof as I'd like it to be. I too would love to see a technique that works for everyone with minimal efforts.

Originally Posted by Bobblehat:
Seems a pretty accurate assessment, Baron Creepyphoto. One of the problems is, SSILD seems to have some effect, but nobody knows why it works (I've had sporadic success, btw). With MILD you can kind of see why it works, but with SSILD it's all guesswork - unless we assume it's just a short and fancy way to do WBTB and nothing else.

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Honestly I'm not sure if the assessment is THAT accurate. There are numerous success cases on this forum, in fact, too numerous too list. I'm not saying it's the best, never said that, but it does work for many people. As for why it works -- we don't even know what lucid dreaming really is, right? Human consciousness to this day remains a mysterious subject. Can we REALLY say we know exactly WHY the other techniques work? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by satsujin:
Hmmm, there's probably a very good reason SSILD has not been working for me. I just noticed you need to wait 4 to 5 hours before trying it. After going to bed at 10:30, i usually get up once around 1:00am and again at 5:00am. I've always tried the method at 1:00am so now I'll wait for my second awakening before attempting it. Wish me luck...

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You do need to get sufficient amount of sleep prior to trying SSILD.  

Originally Posted by mitten1997:
i've found success with ssild only twice and hadn't yield any real results since...there must be something wrong i'm doing, it's such a promising technique for me. last night i slept a bit before 12 and woke up around 3:50, stayed up for five minutes. fast cycles no problem, then the longer ones. i focus on each sense for at least 30 seconds. is that too long?

i find that when i'm successful with this technique i feel like i'm losing sleep..
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So what happened last night? Did you fall asleep after the cycles? If so how long it took you? Did you remember any dreams afterward? Any subsequent awakenings? Let me know more details so I can help you diagnose.  

Originally Posted by Iriba:
I tried this for my 1st time after 4-5 hours
and nothing happened to me.
I was "reporting" what task would be next as well
such as: "next stage i'll have to imagine a color"
Maybe that interfered in my sleep?
I also take a long time to sleep, so i just have to re-do it
over and over again?
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You don't need to "imagine" seeing things. That interferes with the technique and causes stress to prevent you from falling sleep. Just passively observe what's in front of you, with your eyes closd of course, and do not strain to see anything. It is perfectly okay not to see anything. Just the action of seeing is enough. Don't think too much.  

Originally Posted by Matt1:
Hey Cosmic, it says in the tutorial that doing the cycles upon initial sleep is a waste of time. However, I have found that is not the case for me. Lately I have been doing the cycles upon initial sleep, then waking via alarm somewhere between 3-5 hours later. And I have noticed that my recall/awareness is way higher during that time when I did the cycles beforehand than when I didn't.

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Your observation is true, I think. On our forum there are quite a few people who have managed to use SSILD to trigger LDs during initial sleep. Personally I also observe better recall and dream vividness whenever I perform the cycles.  

Let me try to address some of the questions I saw since my last visit here.

"How do I focus on the senses?"

Very simple. Just say this in your head -- "I'm now focusing on ____". Then mentally scan the corresponding directions. For sight, it's the "up" direction. For hearing it's the horizontal direction. And for body it's the vertical direction. You don't need to see, hear, or feel anything. It's the "ritual" that matters.

"How long should I stay awake before doing SSILD"

It depends. If you REALLY want it to succeed then you should become fully awake, but then you may never get back to sleep. You can also stay in your bed and not get up at all and try to chain the exercise upon each subsequent awakening, which tends to be very effective if you practice it well. The thing is, SSILD works by increasing your chance to become lucid, but it does not guarantee success. If it works today, great. If it doesn't, you still a lot of opportunities to try it in your life. That's the attitude SSILD promotes. If you absolutely want success every time, then I suggest you look at some of the WILD methods. But I warn you, a method that theoretically guarantees success doesn't necessarily mean it will apply to you.

"Why has SSILD stopped working"
No definitive answer here. Could be the timing, your physical and mental condition, or the way you perform the technique, and etc. One thing that may be universal though could be intention. Do you intend for it to work this time? How ? A person who never know what Lucid Dreaming is May have lower chance to become lucid, with every technique. That's intention at work here.

Here is a tip for all of you, not just those with the questions -- SSILD can put you into a delicate state between reality and dream upon each awakening. There is no apparent line between these two states. You think you are awake? Then you are truly awake. You want to go into your dreams, we'll you can do that too. At this strange stage, you can choose to move your physical body or your dream body. Soon as you move your dream body you are in a dream. If you learn to utilize this special state then you will have 100% success rate, guaranteed. I and some of my friends have learnt to do this naturally, easily shifting the focus from physical to dream, and vice versa. For beginners you can try this -- you wake up from SSILD. You are absolutely certain you are awake. Don't despair. Relax and allow your head to sink into the pillow. Focus on your nose and imagine that you are lifting your hand to pinch it. You probably will feel some weight on your nose and that's great. That sensation will help you. It is the sensation caused by your imaginary fingers pinching it. Once you manage to feel that your fingers have grabbed your nose you can try breathe. If you can breath the you are already in a dream. Don't let go of your fingers,. Keep focusing on them and roll out of your bed. Voila, you are in your dream world. Keep in mind -- I'm not talking about false awakening here. This is real awakening. But if you do what I say, with practice, you may be able to turn these real awakenings into lucid dreams, even AFTER you have physically moved. That's the beauty of SSILD.

"is SSILD just WBTB?"
What isn't.? You need WBTB for just about every techniques. WBTB alone with  intention may work, but that's more hit and miss. Some people read up on lucid dreaming during WBTB to set up their intentions, and if you wish, you can consider SSILD to be the equivalent of doing that. Treat it like a way to anchor your intentions and nothing more. As long as you are getting the result I'm happy for you  On the other hand, my experience as well as those of many others lead me to believe there is much more to the technique than just a simple intention-setting tool.