-Dreamcatcher- wrote:
I have read this technique.It is similar to what Michael Raduga teaches on hi site obe4u.com
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Similar but very different in nature and result.  

flo148ebb wrote:
Quote:

The itch is also very likely an illusion. This may happen if you stay completely still. Your body uses this as a probe to see if you are truly asleep. There is a technique on DV that takes advantage of this, but it is extremely hard. The probing becomes so intense that most people just give up.

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Oh so that's what that crazy itch is about.  Thanks for clearing that up!

I'd be interested to see that technique.  Could you post the name or a link?  Thanks for the great posts!

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I can't find that article on DV anymore... It is very simple anyway.  Just stay absolutely still and in 20 minutes or so the probing sensation will occur.  Do not move during the probe then after it passes you enter into the dream consciously.  this is simple but hard to accomplish.  People often run into swallowing issues... But when it does work it is very exciting!  

Dablooey wrote:
I was so close to getting into an LD using this technique when my mom came into my room and woke me up. I was like, "Gee, thanks, mom. I had almost broken my dry spell." Lol

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LOL. My cat does that to me all the time.  

pnl wrote:
cosmic.iron wrote:No pnl, you should keep eyes closed through the entire exercise-------

so for 15-20 sec you are trying to see the images and the next 15-20 the sounds, and you are doing this again and again right? sorry for my bad enlgish (thats why i didnt understand the technique)

im going to try it tonight!
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Yeah that's pretty much it  

pnl wrote:
http://www.ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44453 here is my try to SSILD
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Replied to your post

   lago wrote:
Had 2 LDs last night...
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Your welcome.   Please take a look at the replies I gave to pnl as that might help you as well.

   apolo wrote:After 15-20 seconds of trying, how long must you pause or something and go on with the other try's? -------

No need to pause and you should never count the time.  The 15-20 seconds is just a hint.  Just do this technique in a relaxed and lazy manner.  In fact, you want to lose count!

(Sorry for bad english).  

wjxshow wrote:
Hi cosmic.iron, I really want to give it a try, since regular methods are just too complex for me to pratice. I think it's a efficent way and simple to get that point. From your posted i learned that you are a very diligent man to collect information on LD. I also like to ask you what website of you said  about that China forum, since iam chinese i can get some knowledge from there. thang you for your working.

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The web site is Baidu Tieba.  Once you are there search for "宇宙之铁＂(yuzhouzhitie).

The Baidu platform is a horribly simple BBS with poor structures and very lame search facility.  As such it was very difficult to collect data.  In fact when we tried to collect results for the past 6-7 months we realize that a couple of months worth of data are missing from the search result.  Despite that, we managed to collect more than two hundred first-time success stories.  The total number of success stories are well in the thousands.  I hope to see you on our forum.  

Apolo wrote:
Hmm ok, so you dont need to pause? But how do you start the next 15-20 seconds then? Just immediatley after them? (So in fact you are doing those steps for like a minut or 2)? And how do you know you must fell asleep? Because at one point you say you have to pull your mind back and at the other step you say you have to fell in sleep as fast as possible?

Another question.

Do you have to do those steps at the same time of after each other?-------

Just do one after another, without a pause.  Make sure you don't do it too fast.  You want to allow your mind to wander to the point you occassionally forget to do the exercise.  

You can allow the steps to overlap.  

Apolo wrote:
cosmic.iron wrote:
Just do one after another, without a pause.  Make sure you don't do it too fast.  You want to allow your mind to wander to the point you occassionally forget to do the exercise.  

You can allow the steps to overlap.
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Okay, I tryed last night. No result. I did the WBTB technique etc, (after 4/5 hours sleep) I get up and watched some motivation scene's from inception (stayed awake for 30 minuts), then I did go in bed and tryed the steps 4/5 times. But with no result. And it took a while before I get to sleep. So do you have tips?

Another question is;  When do you have to go to sleep? When you did it 4/5 times? Or when you get sleepy? Or do you just have to wait when you fall asleep?

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How long did it take you to finish the cycles?  Did your mind wander while doing the exercise?  Did you occasionally forget about doing the exercise?  If you did not experience any of these then you may be doing it too quickly, too systematically.  If that's the case you want to slow down, do not count the time, and let your thoughts drift.  

Somnium Viator wrote:
Sounds interesting I think I'll give it a go tonight

Edit:

Success! My first proper LD! It happened in strange circumstances though   managed to get through about five cycles and then my alarm went off. (I'd managed to use the MILD technique to wake myself up for WBTB and forgot I'd set an alarm as well  ) anyway I was annoyed cause I thought I'd stuffed up the whole process, so I just decided to try WIlD but that I don't think it worked because my LD was a DILD. Another thing was that I had an FA right after it faded, but that was still a cool experience for me  

Anyway, awesome technique! I can't believe it worked first time for me  

Here's my recount of my dream if you're interested: http://ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=674393#674393

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Congrat!  The FA is an indication that SSILD somehow kicked in even after the interruption as FAs are frequent side effects associated with the technique.  No matter how real it may feel I suggest doing a RC as soon as you wake up after the exercise.  

SnakeBelt wrote:
I would like to try the SSILD technique. First of all, Cosmiciron, thank you for posting and sharing your technique. Unfortunately, I am very fastidious person, which means I have to analyse something to death before I feel confident to attempt it! Please answer my issues.

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Hi SnakeBelt, for SSILD to work properly you need to get into the "trance".  In the trance state your mind begins to wander so much that you frequently pause/resume the exercises.  Thus, the orders and timings are not important.  In fact, doing the exercise "systematically" almost guarantees failure.  As I often said, the only thing you should focus on is to lose focus.  You don't want to finish the exercise in a few minutes in an orderly fashion while your mind stays clear and alert.  You want it to last a while due to momentarily losing and regaining consciousness.

As for scanning the body sensations, you can do it either way, depend on whichever feels most natural.  For example, you can scan up and down for sensations such as tingling, itchiness, numbness, heaviness, and etc.  Or, you can simply focus on specific body parts such as the fingers and toes, head, abdomen, and so on.  Some people even focus on more external stimuli such as the weight of the blanket.

Practice the exercise during the day is not very useful, except during afternoon naps  

SnakeBelt wrote:
Thanks Rhewin!

Maybe that will help me work out what I'm doing wrong - even though I know I'm doing it right!  
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The thread on DV also has collected quite a few dozen success cases.  If you could provide me with a more detailed description on how you did the exercise, maybe I can help diagnose.  

Maneda wrote:
But I am wondering if I should have stayed focus on those changing visuals on my eyelids instead of forcing myself to continue the cycle?-------

Maneda, sorry for the late reply. Yes you should have focused on the visuals. Basically when you notice any sensations becoming real and pronounced, you will want to stay focused on it.  The visuals will usually become larger, clearer, animate, and may eventually envelop you.  SSILD is not designed to work right away while you are doing it, but it does seem to help deepen the state with each cycle; therefore, it is not uncommon to experience a WILD with it.

Quote:

Regardless, I found this to be an extremely relaxing technique; even if I wasn't trying to LD, I think I still would use something like this just to help me sleep. I love it in that it's mentally engaging, without requiring any active effort, like watching a really engrossing movie.

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I like what you said here.  It is precisely the correct way to do SSILD.  Many people simply do not realize this though   I will have to remember what you said here.  Maybe I will include it in my revisions.  

Lucid Wolf wrote:
Such a great technique.  I've got a lot of issues to work out but I'm really enjoying the process.  Is SSILD something that you still use yourself?  Or now that you are in the thousands of LDs (!!), can you just lucid dream if you get bored sitting on the toilet?  

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Based on my observation, after performing SSILD for extended period, your mind and body gets into a state that is quite easy to invoke a WILD/OBE.  This happens at two stages:

1. Immediately after performing extra cycles, say, 6 or more.  You are still awake, may even have trouble falling asleep, but you are actually very close to getting a WILD.

2. The first time you wake up after the exercise.  It is likely that you will wake up into a realistic FA.  However, sometimes you do wake up into reality, but your body/mind is at such a state that with minimal effort you can enter a WILD.

You can try the following method to trigger the WILD at the aforementioned stages:

1. Relax your head

2. Focus a bit on the hearings. If you hear ringing noises try to increase it. When it becomes loud enough you can do an RC and get up.

3. Assuming step 2 fails, concentrate on your hand and try to move it without using muscle. At the same time you can also imagine the motion of raising your hand to reach for your nose for the nose pinching RC. If all goes well you should be able to raise your dream hand and grab your dream nose, LOL.  At which point you can simply get up and enjoy your LD.

Nowadays I use SSILD extensively myself with very good result.  My routine is this:

1. Sleep for 5 hours, get up for 2-5 minutes.

2. 4-6 cycles of SSILD.

3. Go to sleep.

4. Upon first awakening (regardless of it being an FA or real one) perform the above technique to enter a WILD. I have 100% success rate with this one.

Prior to SSILD, I used a form of customized WILD.  I was pretty good at it... although not so good that I can do it on the toilet, but there are times I could enter an OBE from being fully awake within a minute or two.  I've also done it successfully in noisy environments such as on an airplane.  However, these days I prefer SSILD over all other techniques I've used.  It is simpler, faster, more relaxing (the WILD I used actually demands quite a bit of concentration and seems to consume a lot of mental and sometimes physical energy), and produces good results.  

brian8u123 wrote:
Alright so second night with this technique and no success   I'm gonna keep trying though!   If I can master this then it would be a lot easier to LD in my opinion.  Just one question: During WBTB's I literally drift off during the first cycle, sometimes before finishing the sight part of it.  Do you suggest finishing at least one cycle, or can I just let my mind take me wherever it wants to, whenever?

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dB_FTS was correct in his advice. Also you should stay awake a bit more before doing the exercise. While drifting off is desirable it should not occur during the first couple of cycles and should not prevent you from finishing at least 4 cycles.  

ritchie222 wrote:
I am going to start trying this method properly but i have one question about it.

As its stated its best with WBTB i don't feel i have the ability to get up for my normal time and then fall asleep while doing this, however i ALWAYS get up for the bathroom after awakening, what would you advise i do during WBTB, just go straight back to bed or stay up for a bit?

Thanks
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That's fine, as long as you have had a few hours of sleep. You can try to rinse your mouth. That should wake you up somewhat.  

alexkid wrote:
Very interesting technique !

I am not very good at LD but tried it yesterday with immediate success ! looks promising.

My lucidity was low though and the recall is poor enough.

Gone to bed at 11pm woke up at 4.30am (no alarm, I often wake up during the night). I did stay awake like 5 minutes before doing the cycles like 4 or 5 times. Then I turn back to my favorite sleeping position, felt asleep and had 3 FAs, which I believe is quite a lot. I Managed to do RC on each one which made me becomes lucid. Unfortunatly, as said before the recall is not very high, and the lucidity seemed very poor compared to WILD.

Will try it tonight as well and see if the success rate is that high (look promising by seeing all reports on this forums as well as others !)

edit: I was about to forgot, some people reported nightmares which I experienced too using SSILD. Do you guys think it's related ?

Regards,

Alexkid
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I have seen hundreds of report, and based on what I saw there shouldn't be any relationship between SSILD and nightmares. One possibility, though, is that sometimes after performing SSILD one may suddenly enter SP or an SP-like state while asleep, and for some that can be a little scary and may turn into a nightmare as lucidity fades.  

CyberD wrote:
I've been trying this technique very casually for maybe a month now. I hadn't been having any success, I've fallen asleep during cycles, after them, been too awake some nights and tried to shift into a WILD a couple of times after seeing things during the cycles.

I wake up during the night almost every night and so like I sometimes do I decided to give the technique a go. This time I see things during the cycles. I heard voices, vivid images appeared in my head. Normally I'd think "I can WILD here, lets do it." but this time I decided to just to keep going with the cycles.

I think I made it to the third cycle when I fell asleep. I then found myself in bed and instantly knew I was dreaming, so I sat up and checked my fingers just to be sure and that was it. It wasn't a WILD since I know I was asleep for some time.

Instead I think it worked for me because by not trying to WILD I didn't become too excited and I was able to fall asleep. I had the longest LD I can remember thanks to this technique.

Later that same night I had a FA but didn't realize.... so I still have some work to do.

I'm curious to know if many other people actually see things during the cycles. Usually I don't see anything before I fall asleep (which I understand is perfectly normal) but I don't seem to have any success when that is that case.

Probably just need more practice  
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Congratulations! It is common to see things during the cycles. In fact, the cycles are designed to bring you deeper into the "state" very quickly. It works much better than focusing on one sense for extended period of time. You did the correct thing this time -- this is the reason I said in the article that we should NOT treat it as a WILD technique! That being said, you can indeed use the technique for WILD once you become more proficient with it.  Have fun!  

ghanemhaithem wrote:
but why does it work   ,i don't seem to understand the point of it,anyways,this tech is going to have a place in my program,we shall see  

if i may ask,what was your name in DV ?
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Let me give you one theory which I like the most (I'm not saying it is THE theory. After all, we know so little about these things in general, so it is always better to stay curious and modest than pretending we know it all.)

First let me provide a brief overview about the Focus Point model of our consciousness. Our consciousness is a vast and seamless "entity" (for lack of better terms) which covers a wide spectrum of "areas." These areas include our waking state, dream, everything in between and beyond (higher state of consciousness). Just like how camera lense works, "focusing" on an area makes that area appear clearer, and other areas become blurry. Once it's completely in focus, it becomes the focal point of our "self-awareness". In this model, falling asleep and entering dreams is essentially the result of our focus shifting into the dream area. What we typically see as a slow and gradual process (falling asleep) can in fact happen in an instant if you could manage to shift your focus quickly. Whether or not this has any scientific basis I truly do not know. However, through years of practice I can indeed do this shift "manually" and sometimes extremely quickly -- shifting from complete waking state (with small degrees of controllable physical movements still present at the time of shift) to other states in mere seconds. One interesting state is the intermediate state between waking and dreaming. In this state, our self-awareness is no longer confined in our physical body, but it has not yet entered the "dreamland" and assumed a "dream body." Instead, it exists in pure intangible, shapeless state. Under this condition you can proceed to form a dream deliberately, or re-focus to move to a higher state of consciousness. This state is also extremely "fragile" because with but the slightest focus change you will return to the physical. In fact, it is not uncommon to be able to feel and command both the physical and mental at the same time, and that can produce some truly amazing results! Okay let's not get carried away, LOL. Anyway, because our physical input and output are not fully "shielded" from us at this fragile state, our "attention" can be rather easily distracted. For example, sudden sounds, abrupt change of ambient lights, physical touches, and so on. When they happen we inevitably "pay attention" to them and as a result we change our Focus Point back to the waking state.

As you can see from the above, the way to move our Focus Point around is by "paying attention". If we pay a lot of attention to the physical then we remain physical. Likewise if we pay more attention to things beyond physical then we are moving the focus point of our self-awareness toward them much closer. That, is the theory behind SSILD.

During the SSILD cycles, the first one is almost entirely loaded with the physical. You stare at the blackness behind your closed eyelids, that is physical. If your room is not completely dark you may even see the outside light, and that's even more physical. You listen, and your ears are filled with outside noises -- fans humming, wind blowing, and all that weird stuff. You try to feel and all you could feel is your bodily sensations -- blanket rubbing against your skin, some itches, and that horrible backache, etc and etc. However, as you do more cycles, you may start to notice that these external sensations begin to fade, and some "internal" ones begin to appear. The more you cycle, the more attention you are paying to the internal sensations, and less attention are being paied to the external/physical ones. And that, moves your focus point closer to other areas in your consciousness. Think of this as a gentle massage of the mind. You are loosening the grips of the physical and warming up your mind for the more fun stuff.

Then you fall asleep. There are now more chances for you to become lucid in dreams because you have brought more focus/self-awareness with you. Or you may wake up into a false awakening. I suspect this is due to the fact that we all wake up multiple times at the end of each sleep cycle, and immediately fall asleep again. Since our focus point has shifted away from the physical so much during the exercise, when we briefly wake up we don't have the necessary physical input so our mind simply makes it up for such occasions and immediately goes to sleep again.

Sometimes we do just wake up for real. However, our link with the physical world is still very loose due to the exercise, and thus we have much better chance to manually shift our focus at this stage. This is very powerful stuff. Once you can utilize this, you will almost be able to achieve 100% success with the technique.

Additional note: I always encourage doing SSILD in totally relaxed, lazy manner, and allow your mind to drift into a trance. The trance allows you to relax very quickly and divert your attention from the externals. People often run into problems with SSILD because they try so hard to bring out the sensations, and all that does is to glue their attentions to the external ones. Traditional meditation/relaxation techniques do not mix in well either, because focusing on relaxing your body is effectively, well, focusing on the physicals.

I hope this explains it rather than causing more confusion, LOL. Again, I must stress that this Focus Point model is just one way to look at this "consciousness" thing, and by no means I'm pitching it as a "fact". It will be a lot more useful if you simply treat it as a "tool". And in that case, it works wonderfully.

Ps. My DV forum user ID is "cosmiciron". I no longer participate there outside the scope of SSILD related discussions.  

Lucere2157 wrote:
Hey, I have a question if you don't mind.

So, I continued doing the SSILD technique, and had a few more lucid dreams and FA. However, I am now pretty convinced that when I do SSILD I either get SP or get SP in a FA. Its pretty confusing lol. So far, I have had successful lucid dreams with this technique when I have SP with a FA, but there are sometimes when I have SP with FA but can't exit my body. The normal techniques I would use to exit SP into a lucid dream/OBE don't work all the time when in a FA and I was wondering if you have any suggestions as to have a lucid dream with the FA and SP seeing as how its pretty complex. Thanks in advance!

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A false awakening is just like a lucid dream, so an SP within an FA is essentially an illusion which is no different than being unable to fly or walking through walls. The method I find most effective in this situation is to focus on another place or object. For example, you could focus on the doorway of your room. A few seconds later you will find yourself standing in front of it!  

mattias wrote:
Great post, cosmic.iron! The Focus Point model does make a lot of sense to me, so I'm going with it. I think this explanation might really help me SSILD  

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Thank you mattias! I'm glad you liked it  

Dri0m wrote:
First try and i got an LD !   it was unstable and short, but still longer and more stable than my other LDs  

and, this is the first tech that actually worked for me, other LDs i had was my own experiments that didn't work well  

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Great! Make sure you also read my previous post on the theory, it might help.  

annebelle wrote:Questions, 1) any tips for making me go straight to sleep without being aware going into SP? This jolting myself awake maked it take a long time to finally fall asleep 2) is there really a distinction between OBE and LD? Mine seemed to morph from OBE to LD. Or was my whole flying dream an OBE?-------

I think the key here "less intent" and "staying passive". When focusing on the sensations, do not expect to see, hear, or feel anything. As you cycle more, you will drift further into the trance. You will know its happening when your thoughts begin to wander. Do not fight it. Treat it like a gentle wave, allow it to carry you deeper and deeper. This process should be totally relaxing. Once you feel you have relaxed completely (ready to fall asleep in a second) you should stop and go to sleep in the most comfortable position.

Personally I do not think there is a real difference between an OBE and LD.  

NAIAD wrote:
I posted this on a separate thread but I will repost here: I tried SSILD last night for the first time after about 5 hours of sleep, because I woke up. I got to the 4th or 5th repetition before I went to sleep. But a short time later I woke up(?) with a massive buzzing/vibrating feeling centered in my head. I didn't know what to do and to be honest I found it quite scary so I think I woke up fully and then went back to sleep. What was this?

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Sigh, you just missed a perfect OBE! The sensation is called "vibration", which is frenqently associated with OBE. It's nothing to be frightened about, just harmless illusions, and can be very exciting and enjoyable. You apparently did SSILD perfectly in order to achieve this effect. I suggest you read more about this phenomena to learn how to utilize it (Astral Projection people also use it for projecting, but I really don't suggest going that occult route in terms of both practice and view point. Science with an open mind will probably do you more good in this case).  

Mattrogers523 wrote:
Okay so I have been looking into SSILD and it sounds very interesting, and promising.  But I have one question about the technique, when you are laying down doing the cycles are you supposed to stay completley still, I would imagine you are because movements would distract you from the cycles, but do things like swallowing and moving your eyes matter like they do in WILD.  I know that you are not trying to induce dreams from the waked state using this technique but would those things distract you?

I just tried this technique for the first time the other night and I fell asleep while doing the cycles and I didnt get any results.  Im really excited to keep trying this tech though.

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Not requiring you to stay completely motionless is actually a FEATURE of this technique. You should do it in the most comfortable manner. If there is a itch, just scratch it; back feeling stiff? Just stretch a bit. You can always compensate by doing maybe an extra cycle or two.  

SnakeBelt wrote:
cosmic.iron wrote:1. Not sufficiently woken up prior to doing the exercise. Try to adjust it in small 5-minute increment till you find the perfect one for you.

2. Fooled by FAs. Did you recall waking up after the exercise? Did you RC upon waking up? Did you abruptly get up when you woke? This last item is very interesting because we often wake up at the borderline between an FA and a real one. The transition from one to another can be seamless. You should treat each waking up after the exercise as an opportunity -- always RC, and always wake up "delicately".

3. Bad recall. Have you been keeping a dream journal? Also try not going to bed after 12.

Keep at it. It will work! I'm always here to help.
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Hey Cosmic. Thanks for replying.

1. That's the one. Will try 5 minute increments. Incidentally, what do you recommend doing during the 5 minutes? Also, supposing I start at 5 minutes, how many nights should I stick with 5 minutes until I step up to 10?

2. Definitely did an RC. Was definitely awake.

3. Yes, I keep a journal. I'm usually in bed by 10pm.

Quote:

Keep at it. It will work!
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I think it's always healthy to have a dose of skepticism but...are you.......sure?
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You should fine-tune the time until you have success and then stick to it. I usually rinse my month and surf the web a bit with my iPad...

As I said, the technique comes with no warranty but it is pretty solid. Many people have mastered the technique and achieved very high success rate. On my personal forum I require each member (the active ones) to keep a personal thread. They use this mechanism to record their experiences, and interact with me at an individual level. This kind of coaching is quite effective. One guy managed to have 400+ LDs/OBEs in less than a year, and even the less amazing ones now average 3-4 per week. Of course there are also people who absolutely cannot succeed, but if you look their stuff closely you realize they either never bothered to read the instructions carefully, or they mix things up and never could approach this in a systematic manner.

One other thing I'd like to mention is the use of supplement. I highly suggest the combination of Galantamine + Choline Bitartrate + Alpha GPC. This is proven to enhance WILD, but it is even better with SSILD. With WILD you have to work a long time (up to an hour or more) to make this work, but with SSILD you just do your 4-5 cycles and go to sleep, then wait for miracles to happen. You WILL have multiple LDs/OBEs after that, and they can last a long time. Try it!