Just for the record, I've had an easier time with WBTB using SILD. 2 LD's now in as many weeks, which is improvement from my dry spell. When I didn't use SILD last night I had zero recall. Again, it's that little bit of awareness that I think really helps. Cheers

          Current LD goal(s): Defeat Xander in our lucid duel!  

I have read this technique.It is similar to what Michael Raduga teaches on hi site obe4u.com
          Current LD goal(s): Travel  

cosmic.iron,

Yes, it is quite different.I practised as taught by Mr Raduga and also achieved good results .Once I had a LD and on other occasion I tried concentrating on the noise and then I reached a point where the  sound turned like that of a roaring jet.The main problem was waking in between night without opening your eyes and not moving at all.Mr Raduga suggests that to do this technique perfectly you shouldn't move at all not even your eyes.I generally wake up with an alarm and I have to move a bit to shut it off. I don't have an alarm that shuts off automatically and I'm too lazy to buy one now LOL.In-spite of achieving good results I found it very difficult to do this technique with all the prerequisites. Although Mr Raduga says that you can still do this technique if you move but the results weren't that great when you move too much.

The way you describe your version of the technique it doesn't require you to stay still as soon as you wake up and from the results people are getting I'm looking forward to this technique with great expectations and I thank you for introducing it here.I understood your technique but I would appreciate if you give an algorithm of actions someone who practices should use.What I mean is step by step instructions after waking in middle of night.

          Current LD goal(s): Travel  

-Dreamcatcher- wrote:The way you describe your version of the technique it doesn't require you to stay still as soon as you wake up and from the results people are getting I'm looking forward to this technique with great expectations and I thank you for introducing it here.I understood your technique but I would appreciate if you give an algorithm of actions someone who practices should use.What I mean is step by step instructions after waking in middle of night.

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Dear Dreamcatcher,

The SILD method was initially based on my own customized WILD routine, which given years of practice has enabled me to WILD at will.  It was almost identical to Michael's technique plus a few extras.  In the beginning we simply wanted to create a streamlined version of this WILD routine, but several revisions later we came to a very important realization -- it simply works better if we DON'T treat it as a WILD technique!  

Before I get ahead of myself, lets look at Michael's method first.  You were correct that the hardest part of that method is remembering to stay completely still upon awakening.  In fact, if you finally manage to do this you hardly need any technique at all.  Another problem is the method being very demanding on the proper mind/body condition at the time of the execution.  Given the right condition, it is not impossible to have a successful WILD within minutes, even seconds!  However, when the condition is not perfect, for example, when you are rather wide awake, the method will unlikely do you any good.  You can try wiggle your fingers without using muscle but that will feel genuinely fake.  You then move on to stare behind your eyelids but you will see nothing but blackness.  You then try squeezing your brain but that simply feel weird... Let's face it, how are you supposed to squeeze your brain?  Of course, all of these become very easy and real when you are in the phase or are on the edge of a phase, but the exercise itself is not really designed to move you toward the phase.  In fact, the amount of concentration demanded by the exercise will often leave you wide awake!

Now let's look at SILD.  Like Michael's technique, if you use SILD when you are in the proper mind/body condition, the cycling procedures will very likely result in rapid entry into the phase.  However, since it is not a WILD technique, we don't care so much about producing immediate effect!  Being able to WILD is a bonus, not a must.  Thus, we do the cycling routines regardless of whether they cause any sensations to occur.  Here we see a fundamental difference between the two methods -- where Michael's method requires focus, SILD requires un-focus.  With SILD it is fair to say that the only thing you should focus on is how to quickly lose focus.  You want to cycle through the senses in the laziest manner.  You want to lose count.  You want to forget where you are.  You want to drag this on and on...  Essentially you just want to fall asleep so much you give up on doing the exercise, which is perfect.

SILD then works its magic after you fall asleep.  You may suddenly wake up again, due to the motion caused by the cycling, and instead of awakening into reality you end up going into a phase because SILD has already prepared your mind and body into the proper condition.  If you combine SILD with WBTB, then your chance of becoming aware within your dreams is greatly increased because the routine somehow is pretty good at messaging that little bit of awareness into your dreams, as noticed by Rhwin.  

As for your question, I suggest that upon waking up at night, you can immediately do a few rounds of SILD.  This may lead you into a phase, but as I said you should not expect it.  Better treat it as warmups.  After 5 or 6 hours of sleep you will want to get up, stay awake for 5 to 10 minutes then go back to bed to do SILD.  You may want to do a few extra cycles if you don't immediately feel sleepy.  Remember, if you find yourself becoming more awake after doing SILD then you are apparently doing it incorrectly!  

I hope this helps   Good luck and happy lucid dreaming!  

Quote:

The itch is also very likely an illusion. This may happen if you stay completely still. Your body uses this as a probe to see if you are truly asleep. There is a technique on DV that takes advantage of this, but it is extremely hard. The probing becomes so intense that most people just give up.

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Oh so that's what that crazy itch is about.  Thanks for clearing that up!

I'd be interested to see that technique.  Could you post the name or a link?  Thanks for the great posts!

          Current LD goal(s): 1) Increase Dream Recall to an Acute Level 2) practice WILD nightly  

Hollddupp...

I want to try SILD, but will I hallucinate like WILD? Like, do I go into SP? Don't I just fall back  asleep with SILD? I'm so confused. I hope it's not like WILD with hallucinations

          Current LD goal(s): Meet my Spirit Guide  

I was so close to getting into an LD using this technique when my mom came into my room and woke me up. I was like, "Gee, thanks, mom. I had almost broken my dry spell." Lol

          Current LD goal(s): Kill a giant snail monster with an arrow  covered in salt  

flo148ebb wrote:
Oh so that's what that crazy itch is about.  Thanks for clearing that up!
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It starts out as an itch, then it feels like a small lizard is trying to bite your face off. This is one of my biggest problems with WILD.

I tried SSILD earlier, but I wasn't able to sleep well. I'll try it again tonight w/ WBTB and I'll post my results later.

          Current LD goal(s): Have an adventure, have a conversation with DCs  

First LD!

I set up an alarm before going to bed, and when I woke up i tried SSILD. It worked, I think I fell asleep during the last cycles. In the dream, I was at an English school (not native here) which my uncle works for as a teacher, in other city. I pinched my nose and noticed I could breathe. I yelled from joy and excitment, I can't remember the words exactly, and started jumping. However, I couldn't transform the dream the way I wanted, I tried to change some girl's face which I had never seen to someone's I used to know, and I began looking for a WritersCube's clock, none succesful. Suddenly I was home, in the city I live, and there were two strange people, one of them related to previous dream events, but I didn't care about the other. The enviroment wasn't vivid, it was fading out. I thought I would really find the dreamclock when my alarm started IRL. I started rubbing my hands, and yelling "I want to stay!", but I woke up anyway. Think it was better that way, because the lucidity would fade out and it would turn to a normal dream again. Now in my memory it looks like a normal dream, but I'm sure I got lucid. Low lucidity. Next time I must remember to take a look at my enviroment, and ask for more realism.

I remember other three dreams from this night.

And if you got confused with the alarm thing, yes, I set it up to play at two distinct times during the night.

          Current LD goal(s): To increase awareness.  

cosmic.iron wrote:No pnl, you should keep eyes closed through the entire exercise-------

so for 15-20 sec you are trying to see the images and the next 15-20 the sounds, and you are doing this again and again right? sorry for my bad enlgish (thats why i didnt understand the technique)

im going to try it tonight!
          Current LD goal(s): master WILD  

After a 15 minute WBTB last night I tried SILD and even though I didn't fall asleep right away I had a really hard time concentrating    (I did get lucid though, very short as usual...). My mind just wanders so easily sometimes, it seems I couldn't even finish the first part without getting lost  

About to take a nap using this technique, will post the results!

EDIT: (After the nap) Well, it felt like it was working pretty well, I did a couple repetitions then tried to WILD and got closer than I ever have before. When I fell asleep, though, I woke up without any recollection of my dreams, so I don't know what the verdict was.

          Current LD goal(s): Kill a giant snail monster with an arrow  covered in salt  

Innhyu wrote:
this method, regardless of its original intention (LDing), is such a good method for people struggling with insomnia for sure!

it only takes me 1, maybe 2 cycles to doze off... it's really hard to complete this few times haha
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LOL, yeah it really is a form of self-hypnosis I guess.  

Had 2 LDs last night, using SSILD, even though I couldn't concentrate very much. I think I have to work on my lucidity now, as I'm not paying attention to things and can't control them in the dream.

Thank you for the technique. ;D
          Current LD goal(s): To increase awareness.  

http://www.ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44453 here is my try to SSILD
          Current LD goal(s): master WILD  

I have some questions. Is it normal for your thoughts to drift off while doing the cycles? Every single time I try this my thoughts almost immediately drift off and I have to pull my focus back in order to keep going. Then I feel like it keeps me awake. Should I keep pulling my focus back long enough to do like 5 cycles? Should I let my mind drift off even if I didn't finish the first cycle? Am I too sleepy when I attempt this? I need help please!

          Current LD goal(s): Asking a DC to take me to whoever is in charge.  

Hi cosmic.iron, I really want to give it a try, since regular methods are just too complex for me to pratice. I think it's a efficent way and simple to get that point. From your posted i learned that you are a very diligent man to collect information on LD. I also like to ask you what website of you said  about that China forum, since iam chinese i can get some knowledge from there. thang you for your working.  

cosmic.iron wrote:
Are you too sleepy when you attempted this?  Hard to tell because some people seem to drift immediately even after staying awake for a long time!  In general though it is better to have sufficient sleep prior to doing the exercise.  Whe  you get out of the bed you shouldn't fee too drawsy.  That way you can comfortablly stay awake for at least 5 to 10 minutes then go back to bed to do the exercise.

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I usually attempt this when I've waken up in the middle of the night - during a WBTB. Okay, so I guess I'll try staying awake a little longer before I attempt this next time. I did that one time and I ended up being in and out of sleep (or so I thought) for the last 2 hours before I had to wake up. I'll just try experimenting though. Thank you!

          Current LD goal(s): Asking a DC to take me to whoever is in charge.  

cosmic.iron wrote:
pnl wrote:
http://www.ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44453 here is my try to SSILD
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Replied to your post

   lago wrote:
Had 2 LDs last night...
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Your welcome.   Please take a look at the replies I gave to pnl as that might help you as well.

   apolo wrote:After 15-20 seconds of trying, how long must you pause or something and go on with the other try's? -------

No need to pause and you should never count the time.  The 15-20 seconds is just a hint.  Just do this technique in a relaxed and lazy manner.  In fact, you want to lose count!

(Sorry for bad english).
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Hmm ok, so you dont need to pause? But how do you start the next 15-20 seconds then? Just immediatley after them? (So in fact you are doing those steps for like a minut or 2)? And how do you know you must fell asleep? Because at one point you say you have to pull your mind back and at the other step you say you have to fell in sleep as fast as possible?

(Again sorry for my worse english).

cosmic.iron wrote:
gemini.moon wrote:
cosmic.iron wrote:
gemini.moon wrote:
I've been trying this a lot lately, and I still have problems because I fall asleep way too quickly. I get up and will be wide awake, but the moment I start the technique I fall asleep within the first few seconds.  What can I do to fix this?

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Are you doing WBTB?
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Yes, I do WBTB every night 4-6 hours after I go to sleep. I get up and walk around a bit and then go back to sleep. But I'm a very deep sleeper and can fall asleep in a matter of seconds.

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Hmmm, aside from staying awake a bit longer, I think you might need to add more determination into your routines.  First, tell yourself you really need to get this to work, then do the modified routines:

1. Observe the darkness behind your closed eyelids with the "intention" to pick up colors, lights, images, or simply areas that's not so dark.  If you fail to find anything, don't strain your eye muscle.  Next cycle will lead you deeper into the state.

2. Listen to the noise in your head and try to increase its volume.  

3. Try to wiggle your fingers and toes without using any muscles.

The normal routines require you to observe the sensations passively, but in your case we need to use a bit more aggression.

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Another question.

Do you have to do those steps at the same time of after each other?

<mod>Double post edited together. And don't worry, most people here don't have english as their first language.   </mod>  

thaifly wrote:
Something funny happened last night  Earlier during the day I tried to take a nap after doing some 5-6 SSILD cycles but could not fall asleep. Then in the evening when I was getting ready to go to sleep I decided to try SSILD again with WBTB and put my iPhone's alarm clock to wake me up at 4am.

I woke up as the alarm went off and grabbed my iPhone in order to silence the alarm. However, the phone stopped ringing before I even touched it and the screen went black. I tried to restart the phone with no success. I stood up and my girl friend woke up as well. At that moment I realized that something was not right and did a nose RC and could breath! I became fully lucid but it lasted only for 1-2 minutes as I got too excited and woke up. So it was a very realistic FA!

My question: is it possible that the cycles I did during day had something to do with the last night's false awakening?

I found it pretty funny that the pure intention of using SSILD helped me to become lucid, even before I had the opportunity to do the cycles  

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That indeed is a funny experience.  I wouldn't say the experience is resulted from earlier attempt of SSILD... it can't be that powerful can it? LOL.  However, it is faily common to experience this kind of hyper realistic false awakenings after doing SSILD.  You are right about intentions -- they are indeed very powerful.  In fact, SSILD itself is a way to set up intentions.  Words/mantras are not particularly effective at communicating intentions with our subconscious, but the SSILD exercise seems pretty good at that.  

Apolo wrote:
Hmm ok, so you dont need to pause? But how do you start the next 15-20 seconds then? Just immediatley after them? (So in fact you are doing those steps for like a minut or 2)? And how do you know you must fell asleep? Because at one point you say you have to pull your mind back and at the other step you say you have to fell in sleep as fast as possible?

Another question.

Do you have to do those steps at the same time of after each other?-------

Just do one after another, without a pause.  Make sure you don't do it too fast.  You want to allow your mind to wander to the point you occassionally forget to do the exercise.  

You can allow the steps to overlap.  

cosmic.iron wrote:
Just do one after another, without a pause.  Make sure you don't do it too fast.  You want to allow your mind to wander to the point you occassionally forget to do the exercise.  

You can allow the steps to overlap.
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Okay, I tryed last night. No result. I did the WBTB technique etc, (after 4/5 hours sleep) I get up and watched some motivation scene's from inception (stayed awake for 30 minuts), then I did go in bed and tryed the steps 4/5 times. But with no result. And it took a while before I get to sleep. So do you have tips?

Another question is;  When do you have to go to sleep? When you did it 4/5 times? Or when you get sleepy? Or do you just have to wait when you fall asleep?  

Apolo wrote:
cosmic.iron wrote:
Just do one after another, without a pause.  Make sure you don't do it too fast.  You want to allow your mind to wander to the point you occassionally forget to do the exercise.  

You can allow the steps to overlap.
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Okay, I tryed last night. No result. I did the WBTB technique etc, (after 4/5 hours sleep) I get up and watched some motivation scene's from inception (stayed awake for 30 minuts), then I did go in bed and tryed the steps 4/5 times. But with no result. And it took a while before I get to sleep. So do you have tips?

Another question is;  When do you have to go to sleep? When you did it 4/5 times? Or when you get sleepy? Or do you just have to wait when you fall asleep?

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How long did it take you to finish the cycles?  Did your mind wander while doing the exercise?  Did you occasionally forget about doing the exercise?  If you did not experience any of these then you may be doing it too quickly, too systematically.  If that's the case you want to slow down, do not count the time, and let your thoughts drift.  

Question for those who are fairly experience lucid dreamers. How does the quality of lucid dreams fare using SILD? Comparing it to being lucid from other techniques, does it create more vivid LDs? Shorter LDs? Longer LDs? More frequent FAs?

          Current LD goal(s): Asking a DC to take me to whoever is in charge.  

Sounds interesting I think I'll give it a go tonight

Edit:

Success! My first proper LD! It happened in strange circumstances though   managed to get through about five cycles and then my alarm went off. (I'd managed to use the MILD technique to wake myself up for WBTB and forgot I'd set an alarm as well  ) anyway I was annoyed cause I thought I'd stuffed up the whole process, so I just decided to try WIlD but that I don't think it worked because my LD was a DILD. Another thing was that I had an FA right after it faded, but that was still a cool experience for me  

Anyway, awesome technique! I can't believe it worked first time for me  

Here's my recount of my dream if you're interested: http://ld4all.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=674393#674393

          Current LD goal(s): Have a conversation with my SC & learn to WILD