Originally Posted by Ctharlhie:
Fully lucid this morning after WBTB and SSILD:

(deleted the url link . Can't link anything yet.)

Also had extremely vivid FA
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That's great!

I had a wonderful lucid today followed by a FA. That FA was incredibly realistic. In it I was writing down the lucid I just had. Crazy.

Lucid dreaming should be part of an adaptive practice of lucid living, and lucid dreaming provide many waking life benefits.

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Lucid dreaming (well, dreaming in general) has become a life passion/hobby of mine.  It's like living another life to me.  

Originally Posted by Scizorist:
Hello everyone, this is my first post ever on this forum and was motivated by my very first lucid dream as a result of this method. I've been trying to have a lucid dream for what seems like almost 2 months now trying different methods such as MILD and WILD but it never seemed to work.

I read this method on the forum LITERALLY 2 hours ago, decided to test it out and it worked successfully the FIRST TIME??!! I became lucid via DILD midway into a normal dream but as soon as I realized I was dreaming I thought "oh my god I need to stabilize the dream" and started rubbing my hands together. However unfortunately the dream faded a few seconds later because I assume I became too excited.

Anyways big thanks to CosmicIron for developing and explaining such a straightforward and simple method that worked for me personally on the first attempt!

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Wow that feels good  I have been quite busy with a personal project lately so I didn't log in for some time. It's always good to see someone put the technique to use and have success with it! I'm still watching this thread closely so should you have any questions do not hesitate to ask. Cheers  

@Cosmic; I've had a lucid dream every time I've used SSILD with WBTB. While I'm not sure whether I would have had the LDs if my induction attempts weren't backed up by meditation and lucid living, according to you SSILD is impaired by any other awareness work, I may try it alone next week. Regardless of the nuances, this has legs for sure, it's only the second day of the week and I've already hit my goal for 4 lucid dreams this week. I tip my hat, CosmicIron, this is legit.:

Also, I've noticed that people in this thread seem to have some weird ideas about the placebo effect. Let's get this clear, if this was a thread proposing a pharmaceutical induction of lucid dreams, then it would be appropriate to question whether the effects were due to placebo. Placebo refers to the degree to which results from a drug are due to psychological, and not physiological, effects. Placebos are fake pills used to test the validity of drugs to see whether patients get better from the pills only because they expect to, because doctors have to be sure what they're measuring, because people could die.

To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo is literally retarded. And for the record, auto-suggestion and intention is to be found in every induction technique.

Yes, SSILD is placebo, insofar as every time you induce a lucid dream is a placebo.

EDIT: I may seem to be making a big deal (I am), but I don't have any vested interest in SSILD, this is a pet peeve and I'm pedantic. People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.  

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie:
@Cosmic; I've had a lucid dream every time I've used SSILD with WBTB. While I'm not sure whether I would have had the LDs if my induction attempts weren't backed up by meditation and lucid living, according to you SSILD is impaired by any other awareness work, I may try it alone next week. Regardless of the nuances, this has legs for sure, it's only the second day of the week and I've already hit my goal for 4 lucid dreams this week. I tip my hat, CosmicIron, this is legit.:

Also, I've noticed that people in this thread seem to have some weird ideas about the placebo effect. Let's get this clear, if this was a thread proposing a pharmaceutical induction of lucid dreams, then it would be appropriate to question whether the effects were due to placebo. Placebo refers to the degree to which results from a drug are due to psychological, and not physiological, effects. Placebos are fake pills used to test the validity of drugs to see whether patients get better from the pills only because they expect to, because doctors have to be sure what they're measuring, because people could die.

To describe something that is already a purely psychological process as placebo is literally retarded. And for the record, auto-suggestion and intention is to be found in every induction technique.

Yes, SSILD is placebo, insofar as every time you induce a lucid dream is a placebo.

EDIT: I may seem to be making a big deal (I am), but I don't have any vested interest in SSILD, this is a pet peeve and I'm pedantic. People whip out the word placebo for every new technique, and it's not worth even mentioning in intelligent discourse.

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I saw the term throughout this thread and wondered, "Okay, I did SSILD once, but maybe that was just a one-time luck deal.  " Didn't know what other term to use.  (probably should have just used 'the good luck' reason, but then with my luck (ha! I used that term again), someone would come on debating the existence of 'luck'.

I do wonder though about the people who go through faith healing or whatever it's called. Are they not experiencing some sort of placebo effect, even without any substances of any kind?  (genuine question)

Anywho, my bad. Sorry if it peeved you.  

And you are still lying.  I've already explained the reasons why and it is not solely the usage of the terminology that I find you suspicious.  Here is the evidence of what went on for all to see:

OBE4U.com Forum • View topic - Plagiarism: "SSILD" taken from The Phase Guidebook

The behaviour of a desperate man trying to save face... and his ego.  I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and will not tolerate your conduct.  How convenient that after all these years you remember to mention the author of indirect techniques and cycling when under questioning by several curious members of various cyber-societies.

Whether it was originally written in Chinese or Japanese, it does not exempt you from suspicion or blame.  And to use that as an excuse, or to even skew my reasoning behind it, is suspicious in itself.  Any distinctions that you now make between what you and Raduga propound isn't proof of your authorship either.  It is very easy to append to what others have put forth before, and worse, to claim to add something new when there is leeway for idiosyncrasies clearly outlined in The Phase Guidebook.

Your earlier versions add nothing new.  Your updates aren't something that the School of Out-of-Body Travel has overlooked either.  

You have simply borrowed another man's ideas and decided to make a name for yourself by popularising a particular method under a different name.  And what's with the extra "S" anyway.  The fact that you get so defensive under questioning only highlights your culpability.  This will haunt you and weigh on your conscience for a long time.  You give off all the signs of a plagiarist.

For the record, my egotistical friend, I did not follow you here.  I've been a member of this site for a long time.  But it is curious that you look your "own" method up online and that has led you to stumble upon my suspicions on OBE4u.  Very noble of you to be defamatory straight away without producing one ounce of a good and convincing explanation.  Good day, sir.  

As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is excellent. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term?

Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth.  

Originally Posted by Meskhetyw:
As a result of this thread I read the first half of "The Phase" yesterday. First of all, the book is excellent. Second, I had been performing some of these techniques for many years. I hadn't thought of the idea of cycling however, which is genius. It seems to me as though SSILD was influenced by it, but I don't see plagiarism. It seems that Mr. Raduga uses the term "Phase" to consolidate lucid dreaming, OBE's and AP under one name without the need for mysticism. If such is the case, would he not want others to adopt the term?

Of course, I may have missed some detail somewhere, but I don't see the techniques as being the same. One could actually use both Raduga's techniques and SSILD together to strengthen the practice. Just my two cents worth.

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When I read Raduga's book I thought the use of the word "phase" is a pretty good one. While writing the revised version of the SSILD tutorial, I often needed to refer to this state(s) of consciousness, but I did not want to tie the technique with any particular belief system. As a result I adopted the "phase" term, and in a few occasions even defended it when questioned by a few people. After this incident though I think I'm going to take out this word from all my writings. Nothing against the concept, just some bad taste in the mouth.

As for the cycling, while it may look similar to Raduga's, they are actually entirely different animals. Raduga uses these as a way to actively enter the "phase" (damn I'm using it again), and he makes no distinctions on what you use -- in fact, he has a whole slew of "techniques" for you to choose from in an a la carte fashion including some strange stuff like squeezing the brain. As you can see, these are "techniques" in their own rights, so basically his "cycling" is the rapid chaining of various "techniques".

SSILD, on the other hand, was based on the Buddhism ideology of the "six senses" (thus the name). In my early document I claimed that no one knew why this stuff worked, particularly I was referring to a scientific explanation. The development of the technique though was not an accident. I figured, based on the Buddhism ideology, we might be able to get something to work by stimulating the various senses. It's not scientific, but it doesn't hurt to try! Initially I wanted to stimulate all six senses but that simply was not possible, especially the 6th one, LOL. Therefore I reduced it to the more basic 3, and tried it myself, and what do you know, it actually worked! I showed it to a member of my forum who at the same was struggling to get WILD to work, and within a few days it worked on him too! And that's how this stuff was developed, so no, it was NOT inspired by Raduga's work.

Initially the technique was composed of rather long "stimulations" to the 3 senses, and ask the user to stay awake after performing the stimulations by occasionally glancing the darkness -- this can be seen in the very first version of the English text as well which was under the title "A practical recipe to induce LDs and OBEs". This, of course, had the side effect of causing insomnia for many people. It was then we decided to further reduce the length of each step to the point it became more "cycle"-like. Compare this with Raduga's cycles, we see fundamental differences: 1. Each step of the SSILD cycle is NOT a technique by itself, unlike that of Raduga's. 2. Each cycle is designed to target and only target the 3 senses, nothing else! They are chosen on purpose, not randomly. 3. The aim of the cycles is to fully stimulate the senses, not to succeed in entering a "phase" (now I hate myself). This last item was stressed since day one, and where do you see that mentioned in Raduga's texts? You don't because that's not how he intended his "cycles" to be used for, and that difference is crucial. Summerlander apparently does not understand either sides well enough for that he fails to identify this defining difference.

Anyway, I'm tired of defending myself from this person since it appears that his mind is so fixed on his conspiracy stories beyond reason. I think I've explained myself and the SSILD technique clearly enough so readers have enough materials to make their own judgement call.  

There07s no authorship in lucid dreaming, nor even MILD or WILD, except devices like NovaDreamer and so on.

This is as old as humanity. From young children to very old, frail people. Rich and poor.

It07s ok to say this guy is the author of this or that, but in the end it doesn07t matter.  

It seems maybe Summerlander is trying to make a name for himself - wanting to move up in the Raduga empire by playing attack dog? It's really hard to understand why he's so vicious about these attacks. If Raduga is angry about it, maybe he should talk it out with CosmicIron himself, and probably off the board would be a lot more professional, rather than this flame war tactic. All Summerlander is doing is making everyone involved look bad.

Isn't it all about spreading the knowledge and information freely?  

So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far

Things I've noticed while using SSILD
-Dream recall skyrockets
-I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen)
-I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's)
-Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway

Some thoughts
I will continue with this technique because I haven't had much luck with the other techniques
and my dream recall has been rather bad lately, and SSILD has improved that, It strange how
this technique works and I notice how it's described as "setting off a time bomb, to go off in your dream"

in the updated guide

I don't really understand that quote and was hoping for some clearification, but I do believe this could be

a great helping hand technique for beginners and I appreciate any input or advice from fellow SSILDers

Thanks,
-EmptyBucket  

Originally Posted by EmptyBucket:
So I've tried this method for about two days in a row, and I like it very much so far

Things I've noticed while using SSILD
-Dream recall skyrockets
-I get annoyed because the technique is too suddle(I like to expect something will happen)
-I have a lot of trouble falling asleep after cycles and wbtb(I frequently check for FA's)
-Although it's been taking a while to fall alseep I wake up feeling rested anyway

Some thoughts
I will continue with this technique because I haven't had much luck with the other techniques
and my dream recall has been rather bad lately, and SSILD has improved that, It strange how
this technique works and I notice how it's described as "setting off a time bomb, to go off in your dream"
in the updated guide

I don't really understand that quote and was hoping for some clearification, but I do believe this could be
a great helping hand technique for beginners and I appreciate any input or advice from fellow SSILDers

Thanks,
-EmptyBucket
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SSILD is sort of a hybrid of WILD and DILD techniques. I say that because it is possible for it to cause both types of dreams to happen. However, to use SSILD more effectively we should lean more on the DILD side, and treat WILD as solely a side effect. Now for DILD to happen of course we need to be dreaming/sleeping first. Thus the most important part of SSILD really is how quickly you can fall asleep after performing the exercise. The more quickly you fall asleep, the higher chance you will have at getting a DILD, FA, or suddenly awaken into an OBE (I hate to use this word but I'm now banned to use the other word I preferred, LOL).

Of course there is no guarantee that SSILD will give you a DILD, but at least if you do it right it won't take you too long and you will have many more nights to try. On the other hand if you try too hard and end up not being able to sleep, then you will miss the opportunity of getting a DILD as well as precious sleep! For people who are just starting with this the hardest thing to do is not the technique itself, but "letting go".

Having said all that, I want to add that SSILD is actually not a hit or miss type of technique once you learn it. It is almost guaranteed that after you do it you will run into some sort of FA or semi-FAs which you can utilize to turn into full blown LD experiences. Once you master this part it can give you near 100% success rate.

I hope this helps. Cheers.  

So I tried this a couple of months ago for a couple of weeks, but was more using it as a meditation to get to sleep quickly, which seemed to work I think, but I looked over it again a few days ago and have been using it the last two nights. I haven't got lucidyet, and have run into a couple of problems/questions.

How do I know if I'm concentrating or focusing on my closed eyelids, or if I'm looking at the blackness created by my mind? Or does it matter, along as I'm focusing othe visual?

Next, I don't seem very adept at switching between the cycles, which is strange in itself, as I usually wouldn't have a problem doing that... Does it matter tht it might take a few seconds to stop thinking about the visual, once I've told myself to start thinking about the audio? And connected to this, I still hear the audio when and see th visual etc when performing the other cycles... Is that's problem?.

And finally, when doing it upon waking I tend to get distracted very easily I think, by all the images and the dreamless that form. I do catch Myself and tell myself to return to the start ofthe cycle that I was in, but then Id get distracted easily again. Should I be waking myself up more in this case... And connected, is it a problem to fall asleep while doing the cycles, I did last night I think... From what I can gather this is something akin to a MILD technique, whic wouldn't matter if I fell asleep, but you seem adamant that one should finish the cycles and then sleep and that one shouldnt be doing any other methods with this(is this just during the sleep process, or does that extend to awareness etc during the day?)

Sorry, there was more than I thought, thanks for the tech, it does seem very promising to me. Once I smooth out a few kinks that is  

Thanks forthe quick reply, and thanks for clarifying. As you have identified, i am a very analytical person, but I attempted this again, with my new 'dont think about it' stance. Unfortunately, I don't know if I was too awake to begin with, but thoughts were popping into my head, my 'active brain' kicked in, there were conversations and songs and scenarios for all sorts of things playing in my head, which prevented me from falling asleep again, so I had to wake up at 4.30am:/

These were the distractions I was talking about, I find it very difficult to quiet them down, and it's frustrating when the only advice you can find online is, 'just let these thoughts pass by' lol. When I wake in the night I do quiet often experience what I think is hypnagogia, basically just a short dream that plays in the darkness behind my eyes, almost more audio thatn visual, and I'm fully aware I'm awake during. They rarely get vivid enough to warrant an RC, and i think a problem is that they arent about me, usually just a wierd conversation between to characters, so even if i did get into a lucid situation from them, i wouldnt be there to do an RC... If that makes any sense. Should I be attempting perhaps to cultivate is dreamlet into a more personal thing, involving me doing something and eventually into a lucid, or is that getting into WILD territory lol.

Thanks again, I'm fairly convinced about the technique after reading all the success stories and am happy thinking that it will work for me, I just need to get over the hurdle first  

Because of your sig I read everything you post with that sunglasses emoticon.  

Originally Posted by LittleStar:
Thanks forthe quick reply, and thanks for clarifying. As you have identified, i am a very analytical person...

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I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it.

I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my  suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique).  

Originally Posted by Bobblehat:
Why are you skeptical? (Feel free to reply in private or start another thread if you don't want to go off topic too much.)

--------:
I, too, would also be interested in this reply.

You have your audience, CosmicIron, please share your thoughts.    

Originally Posted by fogelbise:
I will add a question for CosmicIron...perhaps for both of us. I know we aren't really supposed to mix techniques until we are proficient at the technique, but when we have an overly active mind, don't we need to take 10 seconds or so to clear our mind with some other method? I have one that doesn't require thinking beyond the initial decision to do it.

I will leave it to CosmicIron to respond to your questions but I wanted to let you know that you weren't alone. I too am very analytical much of the time - and overly analytical too often. With practice (mostly just time) I have been able to make the cycles work for me though and I attribute the technique to providing most of my LDs so far. I am still working at it though on weekends and maybe once during the work week. More good news is that those thoughts popping into your mind are signs that you mind is getting ready to drift off to sleep. For analytical people, we have to find a way to not pay attention to those dreamlets unless you are trying to WILD perhaps(not my  suit yet). I like to pay attention to those dreamlets because they are so fascinating to me as to where in the heck they come from, but we must resist if we want to fall asleep and let the "time bomb" go off later in the night in the middle of one of your dreams...and to me that is one of the most fascinating things about the technique...the seemingly spontaneous DILDs (though I have had what I think were a few WILDS when I didn't fall asleep quickly and one DEILD I attribute to the technique).

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This is so well put I have nothing more to add! I will redirect my answer to your post instead.  

CosmicIron:  Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice?

I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious...

Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested  to risk another break from your thread.  

Originally Posted by Sageous:
CosmicIron:  Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice?

I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious...

Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested  to risk another break from your thread.

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I'm referring to both actually, but in particular ADA because it is often seen by many as the "ultimate" so there are some really high expectations. One analogy I always like to use is the Jason Bourne story. In the first Bourne movie he demonstrated a very high level of awareness of his surroundings. I don't know if spies are really trained to be like that but if they are, then according to the ADA theory we will have many lucid dream masters among them. LOL.  

Originally Posted by tofur:
I didn't realize ssild required practice and time to perfect, it seems really straightforward to me.  Whats the difference between a novice and experienced ssild-er?

edit:  does it usually take a bunch of repeated efforts before lucidity starts showing up?  like a couple weeks of doing ssild with wbtb every night or something?

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Both questions I'm sure CosmicIron can give you a much better answer on but I will say that on your second question in the edit: I have seen many accounts of people gaining lucidity within the first week of using the technique and some others that were struggling to get it to work. It seems to have a high early success rate...then again, maybe many people that have trouble with it do not post anything unless they are willing to ask for help.

Part 2

Originally Posted by Sageous:
CosmicIron:  Are you just referring to ADA, as you keep mentioning that, or any daytime practice?

I ask because I've been meaning to start a thread that asks if maybe ADA is no help at all to LD'ing, and may even have negative effect, but had no interest in starting another "flame war" myself.... also I ask because I'm curious...

Sorry to not ask this in a PM, but it seems enough people are interested  to risk another break from your thread.
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I don't know about ADA, and I see CosmicIron's response doubting both to some degree, but I definitely feel there is a place for some types of daily practice according to various accounts all over these forums. It would be good to know if there are certain practices that do more harm than good though. Sounds like a poll and/or a thread would be a good way to determine if certain practices have very few people standing behind them through their first hand experience or belief that the practice was important in their lucid dreaming journey.  

Well,

I've been trying this for around a week now

Results

-No lucids
-No false awakenings(at least I think?)
-Dream recall is great(very happy about this)

My style
So sometimes when attempting techniques to induce LDs I'm either very excited to attempt it, but other times when doing techniques I'm kind of just in a "whatever" mindset(ie, it would be cool to have a lucid tonight but if not.. meh), It would be helpful if someone could tell me which mindset is most resourceful for lucid dreaming as I know mindsets are HUGE in success.

But latey I've been waking up, doing the cycles somewhat carelessly and sometimes extremely carelessly, just kind of messing around with that. Every morning I wake up and I remember my dreams and it's starting to get rare that I remember nothing(which is awesome).

Although, I've been having some moments where I feel like when I was in the dream I could've done something, like I was 1/4 conscious. Very hard to explain it just feels like the day following the dream I felt like I was close enough to attain lucidity.

Some thoughts

I enjoy doing this method but I'm hungering to attempt other methods such as WILD, but at the same time I feel like I should stick to this method as it's yielding better results than I've had with WILD, DILD(had 2 short lucid, idk bout this one). But I feel like this can also be a good stepping stone for beginners to increase recall and I would recommend this method to people with bad recall.  

just had a lengthy lucid and a FA via ssild last night.  I'd say this was my 9th or 10th attempt, I was starting to have doubts.  The FA was weird, the dream blacked out and I was "awake", but felt fuzzy.  I plugged my nose and tried to breathe and it worked, I did it a few more times because it didn't make any sense, but then I like, forgot about it or something.  Maybe the issue was I never opened my eyes.  Weird.

Lucidity wasn't as clear as it could've been.  This is where I'm also curious as to the benefit of awareness practice.  Can it lead to increased awareness once your lucid in a dream, is that a potential use for it?  what do you guys do to increase your "waking consciousness" once you realize your dreaming?  

So, I have to assume that either this the doesn't work for me, or wasnt doing it right. I tried it for 4-5 days, I know it's not the lengthiest spell, but my recall in those days went down to near nothing, really just a vague image or two each night rather than any kind of full dream. I switched back to MILD with my usual mantras and mediation before sleep and immediately had much better recall.

I am inclined to think that I just fail at SSILD, as so many people can't be wrong about the tech, but I think for me I needed the mantra to focus on dreaming before sleeping, rather than focusing in external factors. As some above posts suggest, it could be that I need to press through until I become a little more used to a different kind focusing, or perhaps need to return to this once I'm a little more proficient and experienced with lucidity in general. (as a side note, I dont seem to ever get that initial jolt of lucidity with a new and interesting tech that many people seem to get, perhaps I'm too analytical for that, or pessimistic(realistic), but that I would say is a big problem for me and new methods... Just not sure how to overcome it, and set my mind up for decent expectation of lucidity.)

A quick point about the ADA, isn't want the thread to be hijacked by any means, but I would be interested in a thread about this, as I'm in the mind that ADA is the perfect tech, it makes sense to me that it should work, and I think I would attribute a lot of my lucid dreams to general awareness rather than a technique... In fact probably all (2 or 3) that weren't induced by fear. I would be very interested to hear other opinions and arguments, especially if there was experience fro the likes of Sageous weighing on the counter.  

Originally Posted by tofur:
dude just chill with the negative talk, I just had my first lucid from ssild and it took like 10 nights to get it.  My recall went down too some nights, and was really good some other nights.  I think there is some subtly to it, even though it is really straightforward, but I'd love to hear cosmiciron's opinion on that.

--------:
Oh no, I didn't mean to sound negative I was merely saying that I think I found it more difficult than other methods, and I think the lack of concentration used for the cycles is the problem. I have a very narrow line between sleeping and wide awake. So I either wake up to much and my brain noise kicks in, so I don't sleep, or I fall asleep before the cycles are finished. It just going to take time to find the right balance between everything, and I think until I've found this median other methods ight be a little easier for me...

That said,it could well be that I didn't give this enough time. I think ill have a break for a week or so, then try again, if I get the same results then I'll know a little more. All about experimentation at this point in time for me