主题:Senses Initiated Lucid Dream SsildA little disclaimer: There are many similarities between SSILD and the other lucid dream induction methods such as WILD, MILD, etc. In fact, if you wish, you could label SSILD as a derivative of those methods, or you could simply write it off as an old method with a new name since the differences may be rather subtle. Also I'm not sure if this name has been taken, so if it was then please let me know so I can change it to something else.
Update! The steps for SSILD have been revised as of January 2013. Please check the SSILD blog for an entry that describes the latest way of executing the technique: 太玄功: Senses Initiated Lucid Dream (SSILD) Official Tutorial
Background
While teaching lucid dreaming to novices I realize that many popular methods share a fundamental problem. That is, they all require too much finesse. For example, the typical WILD techniques require proper relaxation which by itself is a difficult subject. Another example is affirmation -- how do you do affirmation effectively? We all know that simply chanting mantras will not do the trick. Same goes for visualization, breathing, and the list just goes on and on.
We need a method that is as effective as it is idiot-proof, hence the creation of the SSILD technique. A large group of people, mainly novices, participated in testing the new method, and within months we received many hundreds of reports of success. And unlike some techniques that only work for the first couple of times, SSILD users report consistent result from regular usage. Many even learned to induce LDs and OBEs on daily basis.
Theory
We do not know why exactly SSILD works. One user pointed out that the method shares some resemblance with the self-hypnosis method introduced by Betty Erickson, wife of the late Dr. Milton H. Erickson. Another theory is that by repeated stimulation of the various senses in a trance-like state, we incubate our mind and body into the right condition suited for entering a DILD, WILD, or OBE.
Regardless the theory, it is utterly crucial to keep in mind that SSILD is not strictly a WILD technique. While many users report successful LD/OBE induction from the waking state, this method is equally effective at inducing DILDs. In fact, I ly suggest users treat it solely as a DILD technique in order to use it in the most effective manner.
Step-by-step
1. The best time to practice is after 4 or 5 hours of sleep. You could also combine the practice with WBTB for maximum effect but it is not required. DO NOT do this at the start of your sleep -- it will NOT work! The only exception is afternoon naps since you enter directly into REM.
2. Repeat the following procedures 4 or 5 times. DO NOT attempt too many repetitions even if you don't feel anything. Remember you are not doing a WILD. You are simply setting things up for OBEs and LDs to occur at later point. If you repeat too many times you may risk losing sleep thus destroys the purpose.
2a) With your eyes closed, stare at the darkness behind your eyelids for 15-20 seconds. Try to pick up any colors, lights, or images, but do not strain your eye muscle. If you see nothing but darkness, that's fine. Again, we are not striving to induce dreams from the waked state, so do NOT force it. It is perfectly fine to not feel anything.
2b) Listen to the noises in your ears for 15-20 seconds. Chances are you will hear some light humming and buzzing sound. See if you can hear it more clearly. If you don't hear anything that's okay.
2c) Notice any strange body sensations such as heaviness, tingling, and movements. Pay attention particularly to the head, hands, fingers, abdomen, feet, and toes. Again, it is perfectly fine if you don't feel anything strange.
The above steps should be performed in a relaxed manner, slowly, lazily, and without any rational thoughts. The 15-20 seconds duration is for your reference only, so do NOT count in your head! Chances are, after a couple of repetitions you will begin to feel sleepy, to the point your mind may drift away and forget to continue the exercise. Congratulations, this is exactly the effect we are after! When this happens just pull your mind back a bit and resume from where you drifted away. If you lost count of the repetitions then simply do a new set. It won't hurt.
3. Find the most comfortable position and try to fall asleep as quickly as possible! The quicker you fall asleep the more likely you will succeed later in your dreams!
What's going to happen
Several things may happen through this exercise:
1. After you fall asleep, you may suddenly wake up with a strange sensation. You will feel wide awake, and your body weightless. At this point just do a reality check and roll out from your bed to begin an OBE.
2. You wake up with vibrations and other strange sensations. Hung onto these sensations will lead you into an OBE.
3. You suddenly become lucid in your dreams with no apparent reasons, or you may begin to suspect you are dreaming.
4. You have a False Awakening. Unlike the first experience, you may feel awake but still drowsy. FAs will occur frequently with SSILD, therefore you should get used to it and become good at identifying them.
5. A WILD or direct OBE. Phase entrance may occur during the repetition, with your mind still awake. When this happens, many of the sensations become amplified. You should stop doing any further exercises, and begin focusing on the sensations until you successfully enter the phase.
6. If all else fail you can try the following technique as a last resort. Upon waking up again, which you eventually will after step 3, try relax your head and allow it to sink into the pillow. If done correctly you will generate vibrations and enter an OBE from a fully waked state. This works because SSILD has prepared your body and mind to enter a phase easily. In fact if you increase the number of repetitions you may be able to do this even before you fall asleep from step 3!
About me
My personal research and practice on lucid dreaming dates back in early 90s. Throughout the years I've recorded thousands of LDs and OBEs. Two years ago I joined a lucid dreaming forum in China, and since then have become one of their prominent writers and trainers. The forum quickly grew to over 60,000 active members. This provided me with an excellent test bed for new ideas. Together we developed and refined the SSILD method more than 8 months ago. Today it is being actively practiced and improved upon by thousands of people.
Common causes for loss of sleep
Being unable to fall asleep easily after the cycles is a common problem encountered by inexperienced users of the SSILD technique, there are several possible causes:
1. False Awakening. No I'm not kidding. What you are experiencing could well be an FA and this is very common after doing SSILD. You basically just lay there trying to fall asleep while you are already asleep. One way to work around this is to do additional repetitions when you find you are unable to sleep. Assuming you are in an FA, or sometimes a light trance, then the cycling technique will usually result in very apparent HIs, ringing sounds, vibrations, or other effects. When the effects occur you can simple do an RA, and then roll out of the bed to begin an OBE.
2. You are focusing too much on producing the effects/sensations while doing the reps. Remember, WILD and OBE are by products of SSILD. They should not be sought after. When you do the cycles, do NOT expect anything will happen. You should focus on losing focus. That's the right way to do SSILD.
3. Rational thoughts entering the mind while doing the cycles. It's fine to let your mind drift to other things, but you should NEVER analyize what you are doing! Oh, do NOT count either. You don't want precision!
4. Deliberately trying to relax. Remember, SSILD is very much a self hypnosis tool, so you should rely on that to put you into sleep. Don't mix in any relaxation techniques befor or after! And certainly do not attempt to stay relaxed during the repetitions. You just get comfortable, and leave the relaxation part to the technique.
5. Interruption. This is the single biggest killer. If you are repeatedly interrupted, whether by sudden noises, discomforts, or others, you should seize doing the exercise and go to sleep right away. You can always do it again later, so do not force it.
Not really... Robert Monroe, Frank Kepple, and many people also used that term long ago... and I happen to like the term in addition to lack of better terms
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
Ive read over this again carefully and your instructions are very similar to Michael Raduga's, 'Indirect Techniques' from his book, 'School of Out of Body Travel'.
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This is an excerpt of my answer to a user in another forum. For those of you who are not familiar with Michael Raduga's work I'm providing a simple explanation here: Michael is a lead OBE expert and author of several popular related books. His method, which he calls "indirect technique", is very similar to SSILD in the way it also uses the concept of "cycling". To use his technique effectively one needs to develop the habit that upon awakening one should immediately remain completely still and attempt phase entrance using his cycling technique. Unlike SSILD, his technique includes a wide range of actions which you can cycle through in an a la carte fashion, such as squeezing the brain, wiggling the fingers, etc. Michael's technique, once mastered, can be very effective. His book offers a lot of insight, and I highly recommend it.:
The SSILD method was initially based on my own customized WILD routine, which given years of practice has enabled me to WILD at will. It was almost identical to Michael's technique plus a few extras. In the beginning we simply wanted to create a streamlined version of this WILD routine, but several revisions later we came to a very important realization -- it simply works better if we DON'T treat it as a WILD technique!
Before I get ahead of myself, lets look at Michael's method first. You were correct that the hardest part of that method is remembering to stay completely still upon awakening. In fact, if you finally manage to do this you hardly need any technique at all. Another problem is the method being very demanding on the proper mind/body condition at the time of the execution. Given the right condition, it is not impossible to have a successful WILD within minutes, even seconds! However, when the condition is not met, for example, when you are rather wide awake, the method will unlikely do you any good. You can try wiggle your fingers without using muscle but that will feel genuinely fake. You then move on to stare behind your eyelids but you will see nothing but blackness. You then try squeezing your brain but that simply feel weird... Let's face it, how are you supposed to squeeze your brain? Of course, all of these become very easy and real when you are in the phase or are on the edge of a phase, but the exercise itself is not really designed to move you toward the phase. In fact, the amount of concentration demanded by the exercise will often leave you wide awake!
Now let's look at SSILD. Like Michael's technique, if you use SSILD when you are in the proper mind/body condition, the cycling procedures will very likely result in rapidS entry into the phase. However, since it is not a WILD technique, we don't care so much about producing immediate effect! Being able to WILD is a bonus, not a must. Thus, we do the cycling routines regardless of whether they cause any sensations to occur. Here we see a fundamental difference between the two methods -- where Michael's method requires focus, SSILD requires un-focus. With SSILD it is fair to say that the only thing you should focus on is how to quickly lose focus. You want to cycle tShrough the senses in the laziest manner. You want to lose count. You want to forget where you are. You want to drag this on and on... Essentially you just want to fall asleep so much you give up on doing the exercise, which is perfect.
SSILD then works its magic after you fall asleep. You may suddenly wake up again, due to the motion caused by the cycling, and instead of awakening into reality you end up going into a phase because SSILD has already prepared your mind and body into the proper condition. If you combine SSILD with WBTB, then your chance of becoming aware within your dreams is greatly increased because the routine somehow is pretty good at messaging that little bit of awareness into your dreams...
Originally Posted by Indeed:
Hm..
This is very interesting, and I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it. I can see how you don't understand how it works, though. There doesn't appear to be any direct connection to dreaming at all!
Very odd. I think I'll try it sometime.
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LOL yeah we don't really know why it works... We can only guess. After seeing the self-hypnosis technique from Betty Erickson, which bears a lot resemblance with SSILD, I began suspect it has something to do with self hypnosis.
I don't have an accurate statistic but based on the reports we'ver gathered, the success rate is at least 50% if not higher. One thing we do know is that once you get a hang of this it produces consistent results. On the Chinese forum I worked with a smaller group of people, approximately 50, very closely, interacting with them on a daily basis. Five of them learnt to be able to succeed on a daily basis. They were complete amateurs with no prior experience with lucid dreaming. The average time for them to achieve this consistent result is about two months. Aside from these five people, all other members have experienced success, mostly within the first week, and they can average at least one or two LD/OBEs per week. The technique was first released on that forum in August last year. To date we have collected hundreds of detailed report on success.
Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
This sounds really interesting. So, I get up with an alarm after around 5 hours of sleep, cycle through the senses and try to fall asleep, is that about it?
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Yes that's all. You might want to stay awake for 5-10 minutes after the alarm. If you do the cycles correctly you should have no problem falling asleep because they are hypnosis methods that can help put you into a trance. However if you find it hard to fall asleep aftward then you may not be doing the technqiues correctly. I just modified the original post to include the common causes for loss of sleep. Please make sure you read them. Good luck!
Originally Posted by nina:
Waking up and laying completely still, that's called a DEILD, and it takes no special skills. No need to overcomplicate things.
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Let me clarify, SSILD does not require you to wake up and lay completely still. In fact if you do that you change the technique to something else and result may vary. SSILD works best when combined with WBTB after 4-6 hours of quality sleep. During the exercise one should feel as comfortable as possible, so if staying still makes one uncomfortable then slight movement is permitted such as scratching, rolling, etc.
Originally Posted by MysticalSophie:
A very interesting method.
As you said, it doesn't hurt to try, so I think I'll do that =)
However, i'm a bit insecure about OBE. Although I understand the concept, it's still feel a bit weird. I never had one so maybe that's why I feel a bit unconfortable to imagine me having an OBE.
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OBE becomes very common as you journey down the road of lucid dreaming. It is nothing to be afraid of. Although it is largely in debate, my personal experience tells me they are not much different from a lucid dream. There are differences for sure, but they are certainly not "soul travel" or "soul being detached from the body". In fact, once you have extensive experience with higher state of consciousness through lucid dreaming, you may eventually begin questioning the very concept of "souls."
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
When you practice the instructions you may enter a lucid dream or an OBE before going back to sleep or you may enter a lucid dream or OBE when you have gone back to sleep. It is a WILD though many would argue that this is a DEILD method, another form of WILD. As CosmicIron says repeat the procedure 4 or 5 times.
EDIT: Sorry for multi-posting, its late and Im tired.
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If one practices each of the 3 steps (see, listen, and feel) with aggression -- intending to produce immediate sensations, then it becomes a WILD method. I usually discourage new users from doing this as it can cause unexpected side effects and sometimes make the technique less useful. However, more experienced users know how to adjust the level of aggression to suit their conditions, and will provide excellent results. Below is a very unique experience recorded by one of the users in another forum. He used the technique for active phase entrance:
I just finished a Phase session where I used your cycling technique. In about 5 minutes I felt my physical focus waning. Then the strangest thing happened. I was was doing step 3 (which is to notice any strange body sensations) and all of a sudden I had a full vision of my body. It was dark in the area and I was kind of like outlined in white energy. Then something that looked like a "pac-man" head started to gobble my toes and work it's way up my leg, it did the same to the other leg and kept going higher. Piece by piece my physical body was being devoured. There was no pain or gore, since my body was just an outline. The sensation was incredible, the next thing I know my entire body is gone and I am in a land with the most vivid scenery and colors I have been too yet. The sensations of watching my body disappearing and then leaving me as just "total 100% conscious energy" was the most exhilarating I have ever had. The mental picture of this really drove that point home.
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
Mr. Raduga says that this is a common misconception that people have that being too awake is going to reduce ones chances. From years of seminar research and results the level of 'wakefulness' that one has is irrelevant to a successful phase entrance.
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The most recent research of Mr. Raduga is that phantom wiggling, swimming technique, rotation and imaging rubbing hands in front of one's face are the most effective indirect techniques. We often are in the 'phase' state immediately upon waking. I have many times awoken, keeping completely still, and immediately just left my physical body by getting up like I would do with my physical body. If this doesn't happen then 'Indirect Techniques' are then necessary to move one towards the phase state.
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IMO, while wakefulness is irrelevant, successful phase entrance does require the user to be able to shift from being fully awake to a state that boarder between wakefulness and sleep. In order to do so, one needs to either quickly fall asleep, or focus on deepening the state through more active relaxation and hypnosis methods. While this is not impossible to do, it is definitely difficult for new users, and that's the very reason Mr. Raduga discourages using Direct Method as the primary mean to achieve phase entrance. SSILD was designed with beginners in mind. One can definitely use the technique ACTIVELY, and given enough repetition one can enter a trance from being fully awake (after all, it is very similar to Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis). However, that requires determination and skill often lacked by beginners.
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
I don't want to come across as being critical or pedantic but this is WBTB by definition and the instructions could be confusing to some.
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Good point mcwillis Now I re-read my post it was indeed confusing. LOL
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Oh my gosh. This technique is amazing!
So last night, I woke up after 5 hours of sleep, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. I did about, 5 cycles (If I remember correctly.) Then I got comfortable and did one cycle for some reason. After a few minutes I turned over once more (now on my stomach) and fell asleep.
I woke up.. and my body was completely paralyzed! I could not move. I think I could open my eyes, but I didn't want to! I got really scared. I heard these weird wind sounds in my ears or something, and my body just felt heavy and numb (it was a bit hazy at this part, can't remember much). I just decided, "What the heck, I'm getting out of this!" (I've done this before, and I ended up in a FA) So I tried wriggling my head, then my arms, then my fingers, and finally "broke" out of SP. I lay motionless , still lying on my stomach in my bed. Then I thought to myself, "Crap. I shouldn't have done that." But then I RCed out of reflex, and what do you know, I was in an FA! I got really excited. Still laying on my stomach, I used my arms and "pushed" me out of bed. It was extremely hard to do this. It was like pushing a rusted lever or something (kind of like I was "stuck" to the bed). Then I saw it was dark in my room so I got scared once more (I'm always afraid of seeing scary things in my dreams, like weird shadows and such).
So eventually after my adventure filled lucid dream (it was pretty vivid at the start, then I kind of lost lucidity at the end), I woke up. I remember going throughout the morning, kind of sad that I didn't have any more time to use the technique in the night, because of school. Then it faded. I woke up in my bed.
I guess I missed my opportunity for another lucid dream. Tricky tricky false awakenings
I looked at my clock and, all of that happened in less than 2 hours! How awesome is that!
Definetly trying this again tonight!
Oh yeah, and what could that be classified as? DEILD? FA? Not sure. (it's for putting it in my sig )
(Sorry for the long post...)
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Glad it worked for you! Yes, SSILD is very good at producing FAs! As for classification, I like to call it a hybrid of WILD and DILD, or maybe self-hypnosis... who knows, LOL. BTW, next time you find yourself stuck during an OBE, don't force it. Start by rubbing your hands, and then imagine yourself spinning. Once you start spinning you can get up easily. If the room appears dark, you can try shouting "Lights up!" Or flipping light switches can also produce excellent results. Sometimes the room may not light up, but flip it a few times then something will definitely lit -- for example, the outdoors might turn to day light, street lamps might get turned on, stars may shine...
Originally Posted by Taffy:
Wait... I don't want to do an OBE, especially not by accident... Should I still use this? Could it be used only for inducing lucid dreams (through FAs I guess)?
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If you absolutely don't want OBE, then you should do the cycles in the most relaxed, dumbest manner -- not thinking or expecting anything to happen during these steps. This is in fact the most correct way to use the technique. When you do it in this manner, the techniques will help put you into a trance-like state, then you fall asleep from there.
Originally Posted by Chetan:
Quote from Mr Radugas book "A practical Guide book"
Pg No 16
"Dream consciousness is also considered to be a phase
experience. If you suddenly realize that you're dreaming while
asleep, then that's already the phase. You should therefore
proceed to implement your plan of action and stabilize the
state. If dream consciousness does arise, it would be a side
effect of doing technique cycles upon awakenings. This side
effect is quite common - always be ready for":
This is what SILD is about.
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Please see my previous post regarding the subtle differences between SSILD and Michael's technique. They are similar but there are distinct differences between the two methods, especially in the way these cycles should be performed. I'd rather say SSILD is more closely related to Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis technique.
Originally Posted by Chetan:
They say in an obe there is silver chord attached to your dream body.
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This is typically accepted as a fact by people who practice astral projections. However, in an OBE or LD, you often see what you want to see, and your beliefs play a determining role on that.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Ok, so will we still get FAs with this? Or does this technique give us FAs no matter what?
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FAs frequently happen after doing SSILD, but I wouldn't guarantee it.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Yeah, I don't really want an OBE either. Is there a difference? (For me, I thought an OBE was a more vivid, realistic kind of consciousness-thingy...)
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Actually your previous experience could be classified as an OBE! I always suspect people who say OBEs are more realistic are just bluffing. Yes, OBEs can be realistic, but so does LDs. OBEs can also be totally unrealistic just like LDs -- for example, very often people start from their childhood houses instead of their current one... would you call that realistic? Indeed some OBEs can occur during NREM, but those NREM-based OBEs are often very poor in quality, nothing realistic at all. Often people equal OBEs with "experiencing reality without physical body", and IMO that is very misleading.
Originally Posted by Taffy:
So... If I understand this correctly, we can use this (if we don't want OBEs) to more easily induce SP to use with WILD. Is that right?
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If we use SSILD as a WILD method by doing the cycles more aggressively, then it is very likely to result in an OBE. However, if we do it in a very lazy manner then usually nothing will happen during the exercise. You will fall asleep afterward then become lucid in later dreams.
Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
Did a WBTB last night with this.
I did maybe 4-5 cycles then fell asleep really quick.
No results. I'll try it again tonight.
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If that's the case, you may want to be a bit more aggressive while doing the steps -- look more carefully behind your eyelids, search for patterns, colors, etc. Listen to sound and try to adjust the volume mentally; Imagine some kinetic sensations... be careful though, when you do this you may end up focusing too much which causes you to lose sleep. You need to experiment to find what's best for you
Originally Posted by enak101:
I'll try this technique for a while. Sounds pretty good.
Can I get some clarification for the difference between OBE and LD?
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OBE, in a broad sense, describes the experience during which you seem to rise from your physical body and move about in a non-physical form. There are many kinds of OBE though, and some people tend to recognize only a subset of these as the "genuine" OBE. For example, some disregard "dreams of OBE" as real OBE. This usually happens in combination with false awakenings -- you have an FA, then you perform some WILD technique within it. Of course you will right away experience vibrations, HIs, and etc., and you then exit your body. You believe you are having an OBE, but it's actually an OBE within a dream! You are lunching yourself from a platform of fake realities, and as a result when you do wake up the whole experience will feel unreal. In this case, it is not much different from a LD.
Let's look at another example. You experience SP while being fully awake, and then you manage to make the exit. This, when it happens, will feel like genuine "soul leaving the body". You may even see your physical body lying on the bed. However, no matter how awake you are, the moment you make the exit, you step into a different reality. It is very common for people to rise from a different location such as their old houses, school dormitories, or a room that's pieced together from the various places where they previous lived at. Just like in a dream, the moment you step into this non-physical world your IQ is reduced by half, and thus you won't be able to recognize the anomalies. You then go on with your adventure but when you wake up you will hardly remember much detail... again, just like a lucid dream. Would you call this OBE or WILD? There is hardly any real distinction.
Some people like to describe OBE with these attributes: environment almost identical with reality; sharp mind, clear as day-time and 100% functional; solid objects that are hard if not impossible to manipulate; no memory loss upon returning to physical body, etc. In other word, they are describing "soul travel in reality or near-reality". These kinds of experiences, IMO, are extremely rare and most people who report them are probably bluffing, at least to some degree. I personally have had a few thousand OBEs, yet very few of them fit all the above descriptions (only exception being when I used special techniques, but that's a whole different matter). In our forum, we have collected many thousands of OBE cases, and again not a single one fit all the descriptions, minus a few which are quite obviously from less credible sources.
I know technically there are differences between some special-case OBEs and LD. For example, some OBEs can occur during NREM. However, the majority of OBEs are not much different from LDs. You can essentially treat them as LDs which uses your bed as the starting point. Let me make it clear -- what I'm saying here is based on my own experiences and researches. They are my personal opinions only.
Originally Posted by SarcasticIndeed:
Just curious... but, how did you get to this conclusion? I mean, you can't do IQ tests in LDs/OBEs. Besides, even an IQ of 50 would make one understand the obvious anomalies that occur during these stages. Isn't it your logic center of the brain which shuts down during sleep that makes you unable to understand things are weird?
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My bad... that was really just intended as an expression, not a precise statement. I was describing the phenomenon which upon entering an OBE, one loses a lot of her reasoning, logic, analytical, and other abilities.
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
Just to clarify, do the 4 or 5 cycles of steps 2a, 2b and 2c need to be performed immediately upon awakening? Or can one get up after 6 hours; visit the bathroom; go back to bed and then do the cycles of steps 2a, 2b, 2c? Even though your method has its own merits and does vary from Mr. Raduga's methods, he does say that for his method not to use an alarm clock to generate an awakening. As this point isn't included in your guide I am assuming that some of your students probably have and I was wondering if you have noticed the effect of this on the experimental results on the other forum?
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No mcwillis, there is no need for them to be performed immediately. What you described -- getting after 6 hours etc is the optimal way prepare for doing SSILD. Many students do use alarm clocks and in fact I also urge them to do so in the begining. By understanding how sleep cycles work and being able to monitor and calculate one's own unique sleep pattern will likely increase success.
Are you saying that when one reaches the fourth or fifth cycle of steps 2a, 2b and 2c it is very important that one is on the verge of falling asleep as described in step 3. I am asking these questions because with my experience of success with Mr. Raduga's methods attention to detail is very important to a successful outcome.
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Yes that's correct. If fact it may work even better if you completely skip step 3 and fall asleep automatically after performing the cyclings. In Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis method you are supposed to enter a trance while performing the technique, then automatically exit from it after certain ellapsed time which were determined prior to entering the trance. I suspect SSILD has a lot in common with that.
And to finish up I would like to add that CosmicIron's method is a mixture of Michael Raduga's 'Indirect' and 'Direct' techniques with one major difference. In either of Raduga's methods one is attempting to have a LD or OBE from a waking state whereas CosmicIron's technique is setting up the conditions to have a phase experience at a later point in time when practice of his method has elapsed.
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Thank you. Your observation is correct and precise.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
So in order to fall asleep while doing the cycles, we just do them really lazily?
Because, 5 or so cycles is about 6 - 8 minutes for me, and it takes me longer to fall asleep in general.
Should we just keep doing the cycles until we fall asleep? Or will that keep us awake?
Oh and by the way, no results last night. I think it was because I couldn't sleep.. my air conditioner was broken lol.
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Sometimes during the cycling your mind begins to wander, and it may take a while before you realize it and resume the exercise. When this happens you know you are doing it correctly. If you can continue doing it in this manner, then you can indeed keep performing the technique until you fall asleep.
Originally Posted by SarcasticIndeed:
Ah, okay. I was just curious Besides, I tried this today but there was a lot of noise around, so I couldn't. Perhaps the light was too as well. Gonna try this today, I guess.
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Quiet and dark environment is essential!
Originally Posted by hamza:
I tried it three time and i got two LDs BUT they are very short i just snap into my real body after 1-2 minutes.
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The technique does not determine the length or quality of the LDs. Upon entering LD, you should immediately perform stabilization techniques such as:
- Crawl on floor
- Observe and touch objects
- Switching on lights
- Shout "More lucidity now!"
Also you should resist talking to yourself and paying attention to your physical body. Setting up small and immediate goals constantly is also key to prolonging the dream.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Gosh darn it! Last night I just kept forgetting the technique! It was weird because I woke up at 2:30, being an idiot I turned my lamp on and layed there, like I was getting some more rest because I thought it was time to get up for the day.
Haha but anyway I got as far as the hearing part of the cycle and my mind totally wandered and I fell asleep.
Any tips on how I can stay focused?
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First off, no need to stay focused. Like I always said, the only thing you want to focus at is "how to lose focus". The technique is meant to put you into a trance like state after all. Another thing about your practice is you may not be getting enough sleep prior to doing the exercise. Try to sleep for 5 or 6 hours first then get out of the bed for 5-10 minutes. You don't want to do SSILD while being very drowsy.
Originally Posted by Taffy:
I wanted to try the technique but I had to get up this morning... So badly wanted to stay in bed and try it since it seems to be working for everyone.
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Don't rush it. I suggest you do this only when you have a lot of leisure time. Weekend is usually better.
Originally Posted by Fausto:
So to do this, you go to sleep, and wake up 5-6 hours later. But do you just gain awareness and not move, or actually get of bed, go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, etc, and then return to bed and apply the three techniques?
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Getting out of bed might work better, but it's different for everyone so you'd have to experiment
Originally Posted by Barry:
Tried it, didn't work.
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You might want to give more detail on how you did it so I can help you.
Originally Posted by Fausto:
I attempted it last night, but unfortunately didn't have a LD. I went to sleep at 12 00 woke up at around 4 am went back to sleep until around 5 30. I woke up, rolled onto my side, and attempted stimulating the senses by using the three techniques that were described in the original post. I didn't see any images/colors, heard nothing, and felt nothing strange happen with my body parts, and once I was done all four sets, it took me some time to get back to sleep. I did wake up a couple hours later, and did a RC, but I found out I was actually awake.
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I see several areas where things probably went wrong:
1. After you wake up, you might want to get out of your bed and stay awake for at least 5 minutes.
2. Do you usually sleep on your side? If that's the case, you might want to lay flat while doing the exercise.
3. Do not attempt to actually see, hear, and feel things. If you attempt too hard, then you may not be able to get into the trance and may even lose sleep afterwards. Whenever you feel you have a hard time to fall asleep after doing the exercise, it means you weren't doing the cycling part correctly. The idea of the cycling is to help put you into a trance. Your mind should wander during the exercise. Time should fly without you noticing it. Moments of unconsciousness should occur in between the cycles.... These are signs that you are doing it correctly.
Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
been trying this for like 4 days now with no results
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Please take a look at my above reply to Fausto. See if it also applies to you. If not, please give me details on how you did the exercise so I can help.
Originally Posted by enak101:
How do you think this will work with polyphasic sleep? I have three ninety minute naps so WBTB doesn't really work but I don't know how quickly into it I go REM. Would be nice to have a zeo.
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This works very well with naps. Some of the guys are high-school students on our forum and they even manage to OBE with SSILD while napping between classes on their desks!
Originally Posted by enak101:
Might give it a try then, doesn't really take that long to cycle through it four times.
15 seconds each times 3
45 seconds per cycle
45 times 3 is 135 seconds so a bit over two minutes to do it.
Get to attempt it three times a day heh.
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If you do it that way then you will fail for sure. The 15-second is just a reference, which should not be carried out precisely. The key is to do the exercise in a "lazy" fashion. You WANT to forget time, you WANT to lose count, and you WANT to drag this as long as possible! You should NEVER count in your head!
Originally Posted by blubbdavid:
I used this technique for three nights.
The first two nights, nothing special happened.
The third night I was to tired to make the exercises and only stuck with concentrating on the lights behind the eyelids. But soon I started to get a strange feeling, getting to a full SP (not just some weird feelings, a whole fully developed SP, I couldn't move) This then resulted to the second WILD I had in my life.
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Congrats! Once you get a hang of it you will have many lucid moments ahead of you which I'm sure of! Please try to adhere to what resulted the success -- timing wise as well as how you executed the technique.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
I missed my alarm going off, so instead of 5 hours and 30 minutes of sleeping, it ended up as 6 hours and 30 minutes, which I think was what made me fail. I did the technique as best as I could, focusing about not focusing. My mind wandered a lot, which was good. I think I just slept too much. Would SSILD work after about 3 hours of being awake? (in a nap..)
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I'd say at least 5 hours of sleep is optimal. 3 is not sufficient .
Originally Posted by Sydney:
I meant like, waking up for the day, waiting three hours, and then performing the technique in a nap.
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That should work
Originally Posted by Sydney:
I got lucid again last night
I got back in bed after my WBTB (5 hours and 30 minutes), and did 5 cycles I think. My mind kept wandering which was good. But, after I got comfortable again, it took me FOREVER to fall back to sleep. Literally, I was probably laying there/tossing and turning after the cycles for about an hour.
Even though it took me a while to fall asleep, I was still lucid anyway. It was a weird lucid though (lucid from the start of a dream), at one point I thought I came back into SP, but I think I was dreaming then. It was weird.
Any tips on how I can fall asleep faster? I've always had troubles with falling asleep.
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Did you feel tired after you wake up in the morning? If not, then you might be experiencing really convincing false awakenings. Please take a close look at the "Common causes for loss of sleep" section of my original post. That should explain most scenarios. Good luck!
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Do you mean to say that I could have been in an FA last night, trying to fall asleep while I was already "sleeping"?
Ok. I will.
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Lol, yes that's what I meant. It's actually quite common
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Kinda creepy how real it felt then.
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Yes it can be extremely realistic, even the way the bed sheet rubbing against your skin, the person snoring beside you, and etc. The rule of sum is, if you consistantly find yourself not being able to fall asleep, or you suddenly wake up after doing the exerice, you should perform an RC regardless how certain you are.
Although I'm not participating in the forums anymore, I'm still getting email notifications for replies to this thread. Seeing people's questions go unanswered like this somehow made me feel guilty . Therefore I've decided to come back to provide technical support until the warranty expires... LOL
Originally Posted by JeanLucGodard:
Just a quick question, there's ten pages and I'm a little too lazy to scroll through all of them to see if this has been asked.
Must it be with an alarm clock or would this work if you woke up at the right time on your own?
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You don't have to use alarm clock. In fact I never do since I always wake up multiple times during my sleep. For best result though you may want to get out of your bed and stay awake for a few minutes.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
I know that happened to me too.. except I fell asleep on the first rep in the second cycle lol.
Hate it when that happens. Didn't get lucid though.
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I suggest you stay awake a bit longer before doing the exercise. You will also want to be a bit more "diligent" while cycling through the senses. For example, try a little harder to pick up things in the dark...
Originally Posted by DannyY:
My first lucid from this technique was also part nightmare, strange.
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That IS strange....
Originally Posted by dakotahnok:
No not at all! As long as people are getting lucid, I am happy. just wondering, when did I ever say it was bad?:
Yes, that is correct. But after reading through the thread again I decided to change that thought. When I first posted I said this works and it probably isn't a placebo. Now I'm saying I think it's a placebo, but I'm not sure yet. I have been practicing it since it came out but stopped a couple of days ago. My MILD works much better. :
A placebo can have a good amount of success. That's the thing with lucid dreaming, it's almost all intent which is why placebo's work so well. And the fact that the thread is getting positive feed back is just making the placebo er. I'm not saying it IS a placebo, I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to rule that out.
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While I can't explain exactly why it works, I am confident it is not placebo. On the China based forum, I've collected thousands of success stories, all happened within 8 months, and quite a few people managed to learn to induce LDs at will using SSILD with near 100% success rate. It does take time and practice to master though... so it is still not as easy and idiot-proof as I want it to be... hopefully we can further improve it.
Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
Been trying this since it came out... no results.
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While you were doing this, were you experiencing the "trance"? The trance is the state when your mind begins to wander... you occasionally forget to continue the exercise, and when your thoughts come back you no longer remember how many cycles you have done or at what step you become lost. If you are not experiencing this then you are not doing the exercise correctly. Another possibility is lack of mental effort... I need to know more details about how you did your exercise in order to help you analyze.
Originally Posted by dakotahnok:
Still no results. Leaning towards placebo.
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Please give me more details on how you did it so I can help. Generally though, there are three major categories for failure:
1. Can't fall asleep after the exercise. This is due to too much mental effort and eagerness to get result during the exercise (essentially treating it as a WILD method)
2. Fall asleep too quickly. This is the opposite of the above problem. In this case you need to focus more during the cycles and spending extra time to stay awake before going back to bed may also help.
3. Not entering the "trance". The trance is the state when your mind wanders and you forget to do the exercise occasionally.
Originally Posted by mutualdreamer:
I did everything perfect and was undisturbed but I still didn't get lucid Dx. I told myself to wake up after 5 hours, woke up at some time, used bathroom, got water, did 5 cycles, fell asleep in good time, had normal dream .
Tonight I will try not getting up at all and see if it goes better then.
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Did you have trouble falling asleep afterward?
Originally Posted by ch00b:
Just wondering, do we repear each step after doing it or repeat the entire process when we are done? Thanks.
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Exactly like what @Taffy said. Sometimes you may feel that the steps overlap -- for example, sighting and hearing going at the same time. That is fine as long as you don't deliberately attempt that.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Wasn't really able to attempt SSILD because I was away But the other night (when I woke up in the morning) I just decided to do SSILD because I missed my chance in the middle of the night. So I did and after about 3 cycles I felt strangely relaxed.
Like really, really relaxed.
My dad woke me up though.
@CosmicIron: Yay!
Oh and do we need to stay still the whole time we're doing the cycles? I hate it because ever since I've stopped attempting WILDs I keep moving about every 20 seconds, repositioning my arm, leg, etc.
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Thanks Sydney it is important to feel relaxed and comfortable during the exercise; therefore if staying still makes you uncomfortable then you should definitely move to find a better position. In fact if you feel even slight uncomfort it is probably a sign that indicates you are not doing the exercise correctly. Also, do NOT deliberately try to stay motionless. Doing so will only make you tense and lose sleep. Find the most comfortable position as long as you don't fall asleep right away.
Originally Posted by DinoSawr:
I have a question before I attempt this tonight:
If you fall asleep while doing the cycles after having entered the trance a few times, is this okay too?
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Yes it's perfectly fine! Just make sure you remind yourself to do an RC upon waking up again.