Originally Posted by Xanous:
Yeah! I think that's good advice. I like it. Thanks.  

I probably use Sunday and Monday nights for stlye #2 to re-coop since I typically use Galantamine only on the weekend. Then, if I feel up to it start style #1 back up after.

I usually have a period of insomnia with Galantamine. Would it be useful to do continuous cycles while waiting to sleep or would that keep my mind too active?

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It takes approximately an hour before Galantamine crosses the blood-brain barrier. Therefore, if you encounter insomnia right after taking it it's probably psychological. In order to avoid colliding into the Galantamine effect I usually return to bed right away and start working on SSILD. A few quick cycles should calm you down easily and follow with a couple of very focused slow cycles to see if you can spot some hypnagogic sensations. After that just roll over and go to sleep -- don't try too hard though, you don't want to focus on falling asleep because that will just backfire. You don't have to fall asleep with getting an LD as the last thought on your mind. It will just happen. Have faith!  

Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
Brandon, I highly suspect your example is a special case. I have a very interesting observation, both from my own experience and others, about dreams within which we develop and use super powers. It appears that we often have super-powered dreams (flying, telekinesis, mind control... you name it) when we are approaching lucidity. That's right, those failed LD attempt often turn into super powers in dreams, and that even happens to people who have no clue or interests in this kind of things! One hypothesis is that when we gain more self-consciousness within a dream, we start to want certain things to happen. If in normal dreams we are rookie actors and actresses who simply carry out the director (unconscious)'s will, then in this case we become the more creative ones and start to improvise a bit on our own. The dream world in turn respond to our mental command, and that manifest into super powers.

As for carrying things into our dreams, I'm not ruling out everything. There are of course things that we can carry into our dreams, for example, those that cause  impact, desires, anxieties, etc. However, they are not your regular "habits". And in fact, I believe their effectiveness diminishes once developed into habits. Now back to ADA. Trying to stay aware all the time is definitely not something that creates  psychological impact. Even if it is, it differs from the the basic premise of ADA -- being highly aware of the surroundings can be trained into a "habit" and carried into dreams. LOL if that is true then a highly trained spy like Jason Bourn is most likely to have lucid dreams all the time, right?

I have nothing against ADA or similar type of techniques. People are free to choose whatever works best for them. However, I am a little disappointed by the fact that many people consider ADA the ultimate, almost holy grail like, technique, without ever questioning the theories behind it. I don't doubt ADA can supplement your LD techniques, but it doesn't seem to me all that effective by itself. Yet its theories tend to suggest otherwise, and people also like to interpret it that way. If ADA was to truly meet this claim, then the benchmark should look like this -- consistent lucidity every night within every dream (including NREM ones) without the aid of any other techniques. Unfortunately, I have not seen a single person who can claim this, not even highly skilled Tibetan dream yoga practitioners.

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Hmmm... makes sense to me. I became lucid 10 times before ever trying to in my life. This seemed random enough. Normally nightmares, nothing like realizing you are in a nightmare and not knowing how to wake yourself up. Took me a minute or so. Or when playing too much with the snooze bar, haha. The constant waking up and going to sleep caused me to go lucid a few times.

I think the Jason Bourne part makes a lot of sense as well,
Because when you said that I thought "why would that make him lucid?" And then I thought, "oh! His tech basically is ADA without the intent to LD. Makes sense!"

I do not think of ADA as the god of techniques, I have always thought that all techniques work just as well. meaning that they can all get you lucid. The difference is that some might not work for you as well as others. SSILD is pretty much looking to prove me wrong, it looks like the success rates are ridiculously high.

Do you find it harder to SSILD if you go to bed late even if you are getting enough sleep? Or if you are running on less sleep than normal from the previous day?

One of my big things for LDing is "never go to sleep too tired" Because I think that when you sleep without enough sleep, your mind goes into a deeper sleep most of the time making you less aware. My problem now is that I can't prove myself wrong on this because my confidence lowers a lot. So it would be nice to change my expectations on this and raise my confidence.  

I had, and still do have, a lot of confidence in this method. First 3 days I got lucid twice. Lately though I fall back asleep WAY too fast, I think before I even finish one cycle. How do you suggest getting or keeping oneself awake enough to do enough cycles to have any effect, without going overboard?

I probably need to learn to concentrate better too...  

Originally Posted by Matt1:
I had, and still do have, a lot of confidence in this method. First 3 days I got lucid twice. Lately though I fall back asleep WAY too fast, I think before I even finish one cycle. How do you suggest getting or keeping oneself awake enough to do enough cycles to have any effect, without going overboard?

I probably need to learn to concentrate better too...
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Based on my own experience and the posts in this thread, it seems like what you do during the WBTB portion of the technique is what you should focus on.

If you are falling asleep too fast, stay up a little longer and do something to wake you up, like stretching or checking your email.

If you are too awake, spend less time out of bed or don't get up altogether.:
The key is to experiment and try to find a sweet spot. Perhaps the sweet spot changes from day to day and you just need to get familiar with how the right level of alertness "feels" when you wake up in the morning.  

I think you should try it a half dozen times and post your results.  

Alright, I'm going to try that a little and if it's promising, keep it up. It seems in my experience and what I've seen in a few others' accounts that the effects of SSILD on dream vividness and lucidity are greater the more of the cycles you complete, so I just need to not fall asleep too soon.  I'll post about it in the 30 days test thread.  

i tried this at 6pm but it took me waaay too long.. i kept having micro sleeps which made me forget where i was.. over and over.. on 1 cycle it took me 5 minutes on the quick cycle

i eventually finished it then went to sleep but... no dream at all  

Originally Posted by Matt1:
You know, when you get those random thoughts during the cycles sometimes, is it possible to get those random thoughts in FA in the same manner as when awake? I had assumed that such thoughts would be vivid and perceptible when asleep or dreaming, not just thoughts, if that makes any sense, but I could be wrong.

Also I've assumed I did not go directly into FA because I could feel my whole body exactly the same as when awake. Should I still do a reality check (and possibly cancel out some of the good effects of SSILD by moving, if that is possible)?

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Usually in an FA our thoughts can immediately turn into images like you've said. However, there is something peculiar about some of the FAs generated by SSILD. They can be so realistic that no amount of visualization will work, and if you focus too much on your physical body you WILL wake up seamlessly and move your physical body instead. This type of FAs usually happens when you feel you are waking up frequently. I suggest you read my other post about Focus Point, which might help when encountering this kind of FAs next time.  

Originally Posted by bluremi:
I've been repeating my same procedure but cannot replicate my previous success. I do the cycles and my mind wanders but I manage to finish, then I go to sleep and wake up a few hours later without remembering any dreams.

Any advice?
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Did you get up and allow yourself to stay awake for a while? Anyway, take a look at this post. I think it might help: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post1988470  

Aside from the times I become lucid, the cycles have an unusual effect on me that I thought I would share.

Normally when I sleep or used to sleep without doing any cycles, no matter how long I slept, it felt like time had passed, especially if there had been a vivid or aware dream. If I fell back asleep at, say, 3:00, no matter if I woke up at 3:30, 4:00, 5:00, or later, I would remember trying to fall asleep, that I was asleep for an unknown length of time, I dreamed something or other maybe, and here I am.

When I do the cycles, even if rather poorly, not good enough to have a lucid dream, what will happen is I am either doing the cycles or trying to fall asleep afterward for what feels like 5 minutes or less, then suddenly I am fully awake (and not in FA either). I look at my clock fully expecting only 5 minutes to have passed, but it has actually been anywhere from 20 to 90 minutes. Then if I try I can maybe remember a dream from this passed time.

--My Personal Theory--

Generally when I do the cycles I figure that if I wake up after this, I will just try them again, which is good. I find though that on days where I expect I have to get up at a certain time (most days), no matter how much later, this problem occurs, of waking up too soon. I think because I expect subconsciously to have to wake up for the day at a certain time, and to have to have more awakenings in between to try the cycles, my brain wakes me up. I also theorize that this expectation causes the cycles to increase awareness, not in the midst of a dream as I want, but to actually wake me up, because that is I what I expect. That the cycles are causing the awakenings I think explains both the timing and the nature of them.

Still since it is having an effect on me, I believe the cycles to be an effective method of inducing lucid dreams, not to mention that it also works for many to cause quick, vivid WILDs. Now I just need to get myself to not wake up too much so I can get lucid dreams and not these time warp awakenings.

tl;dr Cycles cause me to sleep without feeling any time has passed. The cycles may be waking me up through subconscious expectation to wake up later rather than causing lucidity as desired.  

Got my first LD using SSILD. This technique does wonders.  

Originally Posted by bluremi:
It has not worked for me after my initial success. I am still experimenting to find out what works.

Right now I'm focusing on staying awake during WBTB longer so that I don't drift away in the middle of the cycles. I find myself stopping and starting once they get to the long cycle stage, I think these interruptions are hurting the effectiveness of the technique.

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Staying awake longer will definitely help, but you also need to be more aware of the FAs. Do you find yourself waking up many times after the exercise? If you do, chances are some of those awakenings were FAs.  

Originally Posted by VagalTone:
Im not sure about this....i have 3 or + awakenings per night, can i repeat SSILD cycles on different awakenings ?

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Most definitely. And should you find you have even more awakenings after performing SSILD, it is a  hint that they may be FAs. If if they are not, performing more cycles during these awakenings will likely result in WILDs.  

Stevano. Your first problem is likely because of your second. When you increase recall, you increase awareness and vividness as well. With bad recall don't your dreams seem more blurry and shorter?

Of course you should stabilize as well.  that can counter blurry and short.  

Originally Posted by Stevano:
Hey I've recently started Lucid Dreaming and found that your technique works great! I've had 14 or so Lucids in a around a month. The only problem is that when i started out, i had super vivid and long lucids but recently all of mine are very blurry, and fade out in less than a minute. My dream recall seems to be suffering too. I keep a dream journal and everything and i've tried everything during the dream to try and stabilize it, like spinning, staring at my palms, crawling, telling the dream to be more clear, rubbing my palms etc. but nothing seems to be working. What do you think could be the problem? Thanks in advance!

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Sounds like you are on the right path. Frequency is up, and you understand the stabilization techniques. Are you doing anything unusual with your sleep schedules? Such as going to bed late? Getting up earlier? Are you well rested and in good physical condition? Are you under stress? These are the questions you should ask yourself as they all may impact your dream recall and vividness of your LDs.

Another suggestion is to take a couple days of break. 14 LDs in around a month is quite an achievement already so no need to stretch it. You might also consider taking some supplements. After all, many of which are "brain food", and you don't want to starve your brain!  

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss:
Hey! Am I not the only one that thinks that being in good physical shape makes LDing a lot easier? It just seems like most real oneirontauts are in good or great shape.

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Well, I guess you are not the only one  

Originally Posted by BrandonBoss:
Hey! Am I not the only one that thinks that being in good physical shape makes LDing a lot easier? It just seems like most real oneirontauts are in good or great shape.

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For what it's worth:

I'm in lousy physical shape; I always have been.  I'm not fat or sickly, mind you, but definitely not ready for 15 rounds.  Am I the exception, or could mental good shape trump physical good shape, at least sometimes?

I haven't read this thread, but I think it needs to be said that physical condition, and action, ought to be secondary considerations at best in LD'ing... sorry if I contradict!  

^^ Or people in good shape have nothing better to do with their time... or they're driven to beautify/purify their physique for purely narcissistic reasons ... or they just want dates... or... hell, I think you get my point: excellent physical condition does not equal improved mental condition every time, and people in excellent physical condition do not always have that "underlying sense of well-being and self-esteem;" indeed, very often their efforts stem from very opposite underlying senses.   There are simply too many variables to make such assumptions, I think.

I do agree, though, that physical condition has little to do, proportionally, with LD'ing.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure that's exactly what CosmicIron meant when he asked his question.  

Originally Posted by Sageous:
^^ Or people in good shape have nothing better to do with their time... or they're driven to beautify/purify their physique for purely narcissistic reasons ... or they just want dates... or... hell, I think you get my point: excellent physical condition does not equal improved mental condition every time, and people in excellent physical condition do not always have that "underlying sense of well-being and self-esteem;" indeed, very often their efforts stem from very opposite underlying senses.   There are simply too many variables to make such assumptions, I think.

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Well, there are a lot of "beef-heads" in good shape, and I doubt they would be much good at LDing seeing as it is a mental thing.

My idea behind it is that if you should control your whole body. From your physical prowess to your mental well-being. I know that to succeed in this world it is easier if you are smart and well... not in bad shape. Easier to get a job and easier to keep it. If all else fails at an office, you can always go to a job (like mine) that doesn't take any mind work, but takes the physical endurance to walk 8-10 miles a day in all weather.

I do what I need, and I do it confidently. There are many paths to a lucid dream. My path is through my confidence, my belief in my abilities, if someone else in the world can "always be lucid" than so can I. My confidence is a type of confidence most easily gotten from succeeding in many sports (mostly basketball for 9 years). If I fall it is because I didn't practice enough, didn't study enough, didn't think through it enough. So I can just try again, this time knowing that I could have done it last time thus I can do it the next time. A weird way of thinking, but it applies to all parts of my life now.

Another random point: active body = active mind

I think that being in a position like mine makes it easier, but is still a long and arduous road and many fall by the waysides even if they have it easier.  

Originally Posted by VagalTone:
Hi, i have 2 questions regarding SSILD, which i will be focusing more in the future, as i need to spend less time with induction techniques. ( i have been having great sucess with an extended time WILD technique, sometimes 3 hours,  and i higly suspect i am just doing a long version of SSILD )

this is from your most recent tutorial available on your blog. is it just a recommendation for better chances or is it a necessary step ? also, what do you mean by few extra medium-paced cycles ?  

Real Awakening: You wake up again after doing SSILD. You do a reality check and this time it is real. Do not despair. You still have chances. Try to stay still, and immediately relax your head, allowing the back of it to sink into the pillow. Then you need to perform a few extra medium-paced SSILD cycles. At this stage it is quite possible for you to encounter  hypnagogia sensations. If not, just finish the cycles and go to sleep. You will have a much higher chance to succeed this time

my second question is : i have an app on my phone which helps me with SSILD. after each quick and long cycle it makes a quick sound so i can do it each cycle with more efficiency. do you see any inconvenience ? i feel like psychological time and real time are really different in the middle of the night, is it better to choose psychological time and just go into the trance?

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That sound will get you out of the trance.  

Hi, I just wanted to sincerely thank CosmicIron and everyone involved in developing/sharing this technique. This has worked amazingly well for me right off the bat, as opposed to DILD, MILD, WILD (just couldn't get the hang of those  ). So a big THANKS!  

Always avoided this (not sure why, seemed too good to be true. Bad reason, I know).

Anyway, last night I did a few short cycles and a few long cycles, I definitely entered trance state and experienced some cool hypnagogia, I'm well versed in the hypnagogic state from WILD attempts ad nauseum.

Resulted in a semi-lucid dream that was very vivid before I even became semi lucid. Recall seemed improved, too. I'm quite experienced at MILD so that may be a factor.

I'm gonna stick with it and report back here  

Couple of lucid FAs last night. I can see why this is a powerful beginner technique.  

Fully lucid this morning after WBTB and SSILD:

23/05/13 - Attempted three step task for competition thread - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Also had extremely vivid FA  

f anyone is willing to help me improve my SSILD I would greatly appreciate it, as lucid dreaming is a huge interest of mine but it has been on the back burner for quite a while with life getting in the way and this method seems promising without taking to much time out of my daily life.

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This is where you're going wrong. There is no silver bullet that will replace the work of training in self-awareness. Yeah we all wish that there was some sure fire trick that requires no work, but lucid dreaming does take work and dedication. Real life gets in the way, we all have to deal with that. The mistake is in drawing a dichotomy between real life and dream. Lucid dreaming should be part of an adaptive practice of lucid living, and lucid dreaming provide many waking life benefits.

I believe that SSILD has the potential to train awareness otherwise people wouldn't have success with it in isolation, but be prepared to put the work.