主题:Senses Initiated Lucid Dream SsildFrom what I've been reading, the SSILD mainly produces FA's. Is there a good way to catch these?
Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
From what I've been reading, the SSILD mainly produces FA's. Is there a good way to catch these?
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Do RCs when you wake up, every time you wake up. This way if you "wake up" but you're still dreaming, you will do a RC.
Oh okay - so OBE's are basically just like LD's?
Oh and, we can use this tech for DEILDs? I would have had one if I didn't break out of SP and enter an FA.
Sorry for all the questions >.<..
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Oh okay - so OBE's are basically just like LD's?
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I always liked this diagram from Michael Raduga's SOBT, it basically lumps all of these similar experiences into one category, Phase, which the OP mentions:
The Phase
Cool, pretty original for a change
I'll try this technique for a while. Sounds pretty good.
Can I get some clarification for the difference between OBE and LD?
Did a WBTB last night with this.
I did maybe 4-5 cycles then fell asleep really quick.
No results. I'll try it again tonight.
Originally Posted by rynkrt3:
Did a WBTB last night with this.
I did maybe 4-5 cycles then fell asleep really quick.
No results. I'll try it again tonight.
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If that's the case, you may want to be a bit more aggressive while doing the steps -- look more carefully behind your eyelids, search for patterns, colors, etc. Listen to sound and try to adjust the volume mentally; Imagine some kinetic sensations... be careful though, when you do this you may end up focusing too much which causes you to lose sleep. You need to experiment to find what's best for you
Originally Posted by enak101:
I'll try this technique for a while. Sounds pretty good.
Can I get some clarification for the difference between OBE and LD?
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OBE, in a broad sense, describes the experience during which you seem to rise from your physical body and move about in a non-physical form. There are many kinds of OBE though, and some people tend to recognize only a subset of these as the "genuine" OBE. For example, some disregard "dreams of OBE" as real OBE. This usually happens in combination with false awakenings -- you have an FA, then you perform some WILD technique within it. Of course you will right away experience vibrations, HIs, and etc., and you then exit your body. You believe you are having an OBE, but it's actually an OBE within a dream! You are lunching yourself from a platform of fake realities, and as a result when you do wake up the whole experience will feel unreal. In this case, it is not much different from a LD.
Let's look at another example. You experience SP while being fully awake, and then you manage to make the exit. This, when it happens, will feel like genuine "soul leaving the body". You may even see your physical body lying on the bed. However, no matter how awake you are, the moment you make the exit, you step into a different reality. It is very common for people to rise from a different location such as their old houses, school dormitories, or a room that's pieced together from the various places where they previous lived at. Just like in a dream, the moment you step into this non-physical world your IQ is reduced by half, and thus you won't be able to recognize the anomalies. You then go on with your adventure but when you wake up you will hardly remember much detail... again, just like a lucid dream. Would you call this OBE or WILD? There is hardly any real distinction.
Some people like to describe OBE with these attributes: environment almost identical with reality; sharp mind, clear as day-time and 100% functional; solid objects that are hard if not impossible to manipulate; no memory loss upon returning to physical body, etc. In other word, they are describing "soul travel in reality or near-reality". These kinds of experiences, IMO, are extremely rare and most people who report them are probably bluffing, at least to some degree. I personally have had a few thousand OBEs, yet very few of them fit all the above descriptions (only exception being when I used special techniques, but that's a whole different matter). In our forum, we have collected many thousands of OBE cases, and again not a single one fit all the descriptions, minus a few which are quite obviously from less credible sources.
I know technically there are differences between some special-case OBEs and LD. For example, some OBEs can occur during NREM. However, the majority of OBEs are not much different from LDs. You can essentially treat them as LDs which uses your bed as the starting point. Let me make it clear -- what I'm saying here is based on my own experiences and researches. They are my personal opinions only.
Yeah, I'm trying this today.
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
Just like in a dream, the moment you step into this non-physical world your IQ is reduced by half, and thus you won't be able to recognize the anomalies.
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Just curious... but, how did you get to this conclusion? I mean, you can't do IQ tests in LDs/OBEs. Besides, even an IQ of 50 would make one understand the obvious anomalies that occur during these stages. Isn't it your logic center of the brain which shuts down during sleep that makes you unable to understand things are weird?
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
Let me clarify, SSILD does not require you to wake up and lay completely still. In fact if you do that you change the technique to something else and result may vary.
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This is an added bonus that one doesn't need to remain still upon awakening.
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
SSILD works best when combined with WBTB after 4-6 hours of quality sleep.
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Just to clarify, do the 4 or 5 cycles of steps 2a, 2b and 2c need to be performed immediately upon awakening? Or can one get up after 6 hours; visit the bathroom; go back to bed and then do the cycles of steps 2a, 2b, 2c? Even though your method has its own merits and does vary from Mr. Raduga's methods, he does say that for his method not to use an alarm clock to generate an awakening. As this point isn't included in your guide I am assuming that some of your students probably have and I was wondering if you have noticed the effect of this on the experimental results on the other forum?
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
When you practice the instructions you may enter a lucid dream or an OBE before going back to sleep or you may enter a lucid dream or OBE when you have gone back to sleep. It is a WILD though many would argue that this is a DEILD method, another form of WILD. As CosmicIron says repeat the procedure 4 or 5 times.
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If one practices each of the 3 steps (see, listen, and feel) with aggression -- intending to produce immediate sensations, then it becomes a WILD method. I usually discourage new users from doing this as it can cause unexpected side effects and sometimes make the technique less useful. However, more experienced users know how to adjust the level of aggression to suit their conditions, and will provide excellent results.
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Another reason for my questions above as I am finding it hard to truly understand your instrctions. Sorry if I gave incorrect advice to another member due to my misunderstanding of your method.
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
Mr. Raduga says that this is a common misconception that people have that being too awake is going to reduce ones chances. From years of seminar research and results the level of 'wakefulness' that one has is irrelevant to a successful phase entrance.
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IMO, while wakefulness is irrelevant, successful phase entrance does require the user to be able to shift from being fully awake to a state that boarder between wakefulness and sleep. In order to do so, one needs to either quickly fall asleep, or focus on deepening the state through more active relaxation and hypnosis methods. While this is not impossible to do, it is definitely difficult for new users, and that's the very reason Mr. Raduga discourages using Direct Method as the primary mean to achieve phase entrance. SSILD was designed with beginners in mind. One can definitely use the technique ACTIVELY, and given enough repetition one can enter a trance from being fully awake (after all, it is very similar to Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis). However, that requires determination and skill often lacked by beginners.
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Are you saying that when one reaches the fourth or fifth cycle of steps 2a, 2b and 2c it is very important that one is on the verge of falling asleep as described in step 3. I am asking these questions because with my experience of success with Mr. Raduga's methods attention to detail is very important to a successful outcome.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Oh my gosh. This technique is amazing!
So last night, I woke up after 5 hours of sleep, went to the restroom, then got back in bed. I did about, 5 cycles (If I remember correctly.) Then I got comfortable and did one cycle for some reason. After a few minutes I turned over once more (now on my stomach) and fell asleep.
I woke up.. and my body was completely paralyzed! I could not move. I think I could open my eyes, but I didn't want to! I got really scared. I heard these weird wind sounds in my ears or something, and my body just felt heavy and numb (it was a bit hazy at this part, can't remember much). I just decided, "What the heck, I'm getting out of this!" (I've done this before, and I ended up in a FA) So I tried wriggling my head, then my arms, then my fingers, and finally "broke" out of SP. I lay motionless , still lying on my stomach in my bed. Then I thought to myself, "Crap. I shouldn't have done that." But then I RCed out of reflex, and what do you know, I was in an FA! I got really excited. Still laying on my stomach, I used my arms and "pushed" me out of bed. It was extremely hard to do this. It was like pushing a rusted lever or something (kind of like I was "stuck" to the bed). Then I saw it was dark in my room so I got scared once more (I'm always afraid of seeing scary things in my dreams, like weird shadows and such).
So eventually after my adventure filled lucid dream (it was pretty vivid at the start, then I kind of lost lucidity at the end), I woke up. I remember going throughout the morning, kind of sad that I didn't have any more time to use the technique in the night, because of school. Then it faded. I woke up in my bed.
I guess I missed my opportunity for another lucid dream. Tricky tricky false awakenings
I looked at my clock and, all of that happened in less than 2 hours! How awesome is that!
Definetly trying this again tonight!
Oh yeah, and what could that be classified as? DEILD? FA? Not sure. (it's for putting it in my sig )
(Sorry for the long post...)
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Interesting result
Originally Posted by Fuzzman:
Cool technique I think I'll try it tomorrow during a WBTB. One question though, why is it SSILD, shouldn't it just be SILD? or is there already a technique called SILD that I don't know about?:
EDIT: nevermind I did a search and found SILD (song initiated) so I guess that's why you did the double S's
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And there is
http://www.dreamviews.com/f49/sild-s...-dream-127336/ Originally Posted by Chetan:
Quote from Mr Radugas book "A practical Guide book" Pg No 16
"Dream consciousness is also considered to be a phase
experience. If you suddenly realize that you're dreaming while
asleep, then that's already the phase. You should therefore
proceed to implement your plan of action and stabilize the
state. If dream consciousness does arise, it would be a side
effect of doing technique cycles upon awakenings. This side
effect is quite common - always be ready for"
This is what SILD is about.
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I would tend to disagree with this. As you say, when one starts to have regular success at practicing 'Indirect Techniques' one begins to have more DILD's as a result. But it seemss as though CosmicIron's method generates DILD's a lot more quickly. I may be wrong about this and is just my opinion.
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And to finish up I would like to add that CosmicIron's method is a mixture of Michael Raduga's 'Indirect' and 'Direct' techniques with one major difference. In either of Raduga's methods one is attempting to have a LD or OBE from a waking state whereas CosmicIron's technique is setting up the conditions to have a phase experience at a later point in time when practice of his method has elapsed. From reading this thread a passive practice will lead to a lucid dream and an aggressive practice will lead to either a WILD or perhaps DILD whilst asleep. Please correct me if I am wrong CosmicIron
Originally Posted by SarcasticIndeed:
Just curious... but, how did you get to this conclusion? I mean, you can't do IQ tests in LDs/OBEs. Besides, even an IQ of 50 would make one understand the obvious anomalies that occur during these stages. Isn't it your logic center of the brain which shuts down during sleep that makes you unable to understand things are weird?
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My bad... that was really just intended as an expression, not a precise statement. I was describing the phenomenon which upon entering an OBE, one loses a lot of her reasoning, logic, analytical, and other abilities.
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
Just to clarify, do the 4 or 5 cycles of steps 2a, 2b and 2c need to be performed immediately upon awakening? Or can one get up after 6 hours; visit the bathroom; go back to bed and then do the cycles of steps 2a, 2b, 2c? Even though your method has its own merits and does vary from Mr. Raduga's methods, he does say that for his method not to use an alarm clock to generate an awakening. As this point isn't included in your guide I am assuming that some of your students probably have and I was wondering if you have noticed the effect of this on the experimental results on the other forum?
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No mcwillis, there is no need for them to be performed immediately. What you described -- getting after 6 hours etc is the optimal way prepare for doing SSILD. Many students do use alarm clocks and in fact I also urge them to do so in the begining. By understanding how sleep cycles work and being able to monitor and calculate one's own unique sleep pattern will likely increase success.
Are you saying that when one reaches the fourth or fifth cycle of steps 2a, 2b and 2c it is very important that one is on the verge of falling asleep as described in step 3. I am asking these questions because with my experience of success with Mr. Raduga's methods attention to detail is very important to a successful outcome.
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Yes that's correct. If fact it may work even better if you completely skip step 3 and fall asleep automatically after performing the cyclings. In Betty Ericson's self-hypnosis method you are supposed to enter a trance while performing the technique, then automatically exit from it after certain ellapsed time which were determined prior to entering the trance. I suspect SSILD has a lot in common with that.
And to finish up I would like to add that CosmicIron's method is a mixture of Michael Raduga's 'Indirect' and 'Direct' techniques with one major difference. In either of Raduga's methods one is attempting to have a LD or OBE from a waking state whereas CosmicIron's technique is setting up the conditions to have a phase experience at a later point in time when practice of his method has elapsed.
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Thank you. Your observation is correct and precise.
Originally Posted by mcwillis:
I would tend to disagree with this. As you say, when one starts to have regular success at practicing 'Indirect Techniques' one begins to have more DILD's as a result. But it seemss as though CosmicIron's method generates DILD's a lot more quickly. I may be wrong about this and is just my opinion.
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Michael Raduga says that after practising cycles of indirect techniques regularly, every 3rd phase experience occurs through dream conciousness.
So in order to fall asleep while doing the cycles, we just do them really lazily?
Because, 5 or so cycles is about 6 - 8 minutes for me, and it takes me longer to fall asleep in general.
Should we just keep doing the cycles until we fall asleep? Or will that keep us awake?
Oh and by the way, no results last night. I think it was because I couldn't sleep.. my air conditioner was broken lol.
Seem's like a very simple technique, and that's why I like it!
Will try this tonight and post my results.
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
My bad... that was really just intended as an expression, not a precise statement. I was describing the phenomenon which upon entering an OBE, one loses a lot of her reasoning, logic, analytical, and other abilities.
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Ah, okay. I was just curious Besides, I tried this today but there was a lot of noise around, so I couldn't. Perhaps the light was too as well. Gonna try this today, I guess.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
So in order to fall asleep while doing the cycles, we just do them really lazily?
Because, 5 or so cycles is about 6 - 8 minutes for me, and it takes me longer to fall asleep in general.
Should we just keep doing the cycles until we fall asleep? Or will that keep us awake?
Oh and by the way, no results last night. I think it was because I couldn't sleep.. my air conditioner was broken lol.
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Sometimes during the cycling your mind begins to wander, and it may take a while before you realize it and resume the exercise. When this happens you know you are doing it correctly. If you can continue doing it in this manner, then you can indeed keep performing the technique until you fall asleep.
Originally Posted by SarcasticIndeed:
Ah, okay. I was just curious Besides, I tried this today but there was a lot of noise around, so I couldn't. Perhaps the light was too as well. Gonna try this today, I guess.
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Quiet and dark environment is essential!
Alright then I'll try and see if I can fall asleep whilst doing the cycles tonight.
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
Quiet and dark environment is essential!
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Yeah, I know
Originally Posted by Chetan:
Michael Raduga says that after practising cycles of indirect techniques regularly, every 3rd phase experience occurs through dream conciousness.
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I am aware of this but as I tried to point out to you CosmicIron's method could bring LD's from the outset rather than as a side effect of having OBE's.
Tried this 2 nights ago at a WTBT. Got my first lucid! Tried yesterday also and had a super vivid dream but not lucid. Seems very promising
Originally Posted by GibsoNorth:
Tried this 2 nights ago at a WTBT. Got my first lucid! Tried yesterday also and had a super vivid dream but not lucid. Seems very promising
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Awesome
Sounds very interesting! It seems to me like you are sort of keeping your mind's dream senses awake in some sense and that could cause one to be more aware during a dream or when entering one. Kind of like a MILD, except using senses?
What do you think? Could that be what it does?
Originally Posted by DinoSawr:
Sounds very interesting! It seems to me like you are sort of keeping your mind's dream senses awake in some sense and that could cause one to be more aware during a dream or when entering one. Kind of like a MILD, except using senses?
What do you think? Could that be what it does?
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It can't be a MILD method as there isn't a mnemonic, hence why it is called SSILD
Ah, no luck last night. Kept tossing and turning and forgetting to do the technique.
How dare you abandon my method ;O
Kidding
I did it last night and got a short lucid! I will definitely be trying again tonight.
Originally Posted by dave1701:
I did it last night and got a short lucid! I will definitely be trying again tonight.
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Originally Posted by yuppie11975:
How dare you abandon my method ;O
Kidding
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Haha I'm sorry Yuppie! I'm trying out some new techniques just to see what I can get
I tried it three time and i got two LDs BUT they are very short i just snap into my real body after 1-2 minutes.
Originally Posted by hamza:
I tried it three time and i got two LDs BUT they are very short i just snap into my real body after 1-2 minutes.
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The technique does not determine the length or quality of the LDs. Upon entering LD, you should immediately perform stabilization techniques such as:
- Crawl on floor
- Observe and touch objects
- Switching on lights
- Shout "More lucidity now!"
Also you should resist talking to yourself and paying attention to your physical body. Setting up small and immediate goals constantly is also key to prolonging the dream.
I thought this would be a good method. Some great results coming back in a short space of time
Gosh darn it! Last night I just kept forgetting the technique! It was weird because I woke up at 2:30, being an idiot I turned my lamp on and layed there, like I was getting some more rest because I thought it was time to get up for the day.
Haha but anyway I got as far as the hearing part of the cycle and my mind totally wandered and I fell asleep.
Any tips on how I can stay focused?
I wanted to try the technique but I had to get up this morning... So badly wanted to stay in bed and try it since it seems to be working for everyone.
Originally Posted by Sydney:
Gosh darn it! Last night I just kept forgetting the technique! It was weird because I woke up at 2:30, being an idiot I turned my lamp on and layed there, like I was getting some more rest because I thought it was time to get up for the day.
Haha but anyway I got as far as the hearing part of the cycle and my mind totally wandered and I fell asleep.
Any tips on how I can stay focused?
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First off, no need to stay focused. Like I always said, the only thing you want to focus at is "how to lose focus". The technique is meant to put you into a trance like state after all. Another thing about your practice is you may not be getting enough sleep prior to doing the exercise. Try to sleep for 5 or 6 hours first then get out of the bed for 5-10 minutes. You don't want to do SSILD while being very drowsy.
Originally Posted by Taffy:
I wanted to try the technique but I had to get up this morning... So badly wanted to stay in bed and try it since it seems to be working for everyone.
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Don't rush it. I suggest you do this only when you have a lot of leisure time. Weekend is usually better.
So to do this, you go to sleep, and wake up 5-6 hours later. But do you just gain awareness and not move, or actually get of bed, go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, etc, and then return to bed and apply the three techniques?
Okay, makes more sense. I was just waking up at 5 hours of sleep (since that was how much i slept when I succeeded the first time), and only going to the bathroom then laying down. I'll sleep just a bit longer this time and stay up a bit longer too to see if I get different results.
Originally Posted by Fausto:
So to do this, you go to sleep, and wake up 5-6 hours later. But do you just gain awareness and not move, or actually get of bed, go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, etc, and then return to bed and apply the three techniques?
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Getting out of bed might work better, but it's different for everyone so you'd have to experiment
Originally Posted by Barry:
Tried it, didn't work.
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You might want to give more detail on how you did it so I can help you.
I attempted it last night, but unfortunately didn't have a LD. I went to sleep at 12 00 woke up at around 4 am went back to sleep until around 5 30. I woke up, rolled onto my side, and attempted stimulating the senses by using the three techniques that were described in the original post. I didn't see any images/colors, heard nothing, and felt nothing strange happen with my body parts, and once I was done all four sets, it took me some time to get back to sleep. I did wake up a couple hours later, and did a RC, but I found out I was actually awake.
Originally Posted by CosmicIron:
You might want to give more detail on how you did it so I can help you.
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I woke up at about 4am, after going to sleep at 11ish. I closed my eyes, and tried to see colours, but all I could see was blackness - but you said this was fine, right? and then tried to hear a noise through my ears - I could hear a buzzing noise. I tried to see if my body felt different, it felt normal really. I tried the senses 4 times and got the same results.
Originally Posted by Barry:
I woke up at about 4am, after going to sleep at 11ish. I closed my eyes, and tried to see colours, but all I could see was blackness - but you said this was fine, right? and then tried to hear a noise through my ears - I could hear a buzzing noise. I tried to see if my body felt different, it felt normal really. I tried the senses 4 times and got the same results.
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That's ok Remember, there's always another night.
How do you think this will work with polyphasic sleep? I have three ninety minute naps so WBTB doesn't really work but I don't know how quickly into it I go REM. Would be nice to have a zeo.
been trying this for like 4 days now with no results
Originally Posted by Fausto:
I attempted it last night, but unfortunately didn't have a LD. I went to sleep at 12 00 woke up at around 4 am went back to sleep until around 5 30. I woke up, rolled onto my side, and attempted stimulating the senses by using the three techniques that were described in the original post. I didn't see any images/colors, heard nothing, and felt nothing strange happen with my body parts, and once I was done all four sets, it took me some time to get back to sleep. I did wake up a couple hours later, and did a RC, but I found out I was actually awake.
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I see several areas where things probably went wrong:
1. After you wake up, you might want to get out of your bed and stay awake for at least 5 minutes.
2. Do you usually sleep on your side? If that's the case, you might want to lay flat while doing the exercise.
3. Do not attempt to actually see, hear, and feel things. If you attempt too hard, then you may not be able to get into the trance and may even lose sleep afterwards. Whenever you feel you have a hard time to fall asleep after doing the exercise, it means you weren't doing the cycling part correctly. The idea of the cycling is to help put you into a trance. Your mind should wander during the exercise. Time should fly without you noticing it. Moments of unconsciousness should occur in between the cycles.... These are signs that you are doing it correctly.